EDL Shake-up

I was an early supporter of the EDL. I liked who they were and what they were doing. When the EDL first came on the scene, I noted their strong support of Israel: Israeli flags at their rallies, and forthright expressions of solidarity with the Jewish State in its resistance to the same relentless jihad that is advancing in Britain. Almost immediately there came the inevitable charge from the jihad-loving Left that the group was "neo-Nazi," "neofascist," "white supremacist," and more. So I started investigating. I found that they rejected the British National Party's racial orientation, and that they had members who were Sikhs, Pakistanis, gays and other minorities, and even, eventually, a Jewish division. The idea of pro-Israel neo-Nazis is a myth of the Left, and so the presence of the Jewish division was decisive. I was troubled by the photos of EDL members giving the Nazi salute, but discovered that the EDL was aware of neo-Nazi attempts at infiltration, and had a policy of expelling anyone who expressed any kind of antisemitic or neofascist sentiments. They even refused to allow people to be members of both the EDL and the BNP. So it seemed to me at the time that the EDL was a genuine anti-jihad group, strongly pro-Israel as every legitimate anti-jihad group must be, since Israel is at the front lines of the global jihad, and resolutely rejecting racism and any form of actual neofascism.

However, it has become increasingly clear that the EDL has morphed and diverged from its original course. They now have clearly been infiltrated by the worst kind of influences, something that had successfully staved off for years, and they're no longer staving it off. Roberta Moore, the leader of the Jewish Division, has broken with the EDL. Perhaps the decentralization of the group or the loose grip Tommy Robinson held on its tether is responsible for this terrible shift in the EDL's direction -- I don't know. But whatever the case may be, the EDL has done a Charles Johnson. And they are now unrecognizable to me. I am sure regular Atlas readers have noticed that some time ago I stopped covering their events -- I was waiting to see how things would shake out. I was waiting to see if the forces of good would recapture the heart and soul of the group. Alas, it was not to be.

Now that the person whom I most trusted in the EDL, Roberta Moore, has resigned, as she was increasingly uncomfortable with the neo-fascists that had infiltrated the administration of the group, I too am withdrawing my support from the EDL. I hope that genuine anti-jihadists in Britain will also leave the EDL and work with Roberta on starting a new group that will resist definitively and firmly all attempts to divert it from its mission of fighting against jihad and for human rights.

UPDATE: EDL chief Tommy Robinson has just released this statement to SIOA.

Comments

[Jamadagnii]

"the EDL has done a Charles Johnson" -- classic Geller

[armaros]

Hehe

It was always a problem. Though what Moore says I take with a grain of salt.
I never supported the idea of a Jewish division in the EDL.

If a Jew wants to join, fine..Join because (s)he is English not because of being a Jew.

Moore demanded that Jews openly support the EDL as Jews. An idea I always opposed.

She wrote letters, made speeches, blogged etc....
I debated her (or another self proclaimed JewEDL female organizer) on CifWatch.

That person was a bit immature and confused. Also very militant and aggressive.

May have not been Moore but I think she was...I may be wrong, if so I apologize...

I also heard she is a Kahanist. Not my cup of tea.

Of course the MPACUK called the EDL a zionist conspiracy soon after the Israeli flags were flown.

They stood by the Ahava store in London protesting the boycott. Those guys were not Jewish for sure.

Snowy (the protocols guy) is not an EDL leader. He never was.

I looked into the EDL and saw what everyone wanted to see. Be it from their supporters or their detractors. The genuine good intentions were there as were the nasty elements.

I don't think they are a Fascist organization. BUT they attract them. Unlike the Tea Party, the EDL could not effectively keep these vermin away.

That had probably two reasons:

1) That the EDL was under constant police watch and they couldn't thus manage member rolls. They had many members from the British Military who had to be members secretly to protect their careers. Not to mention others from prominent unions, schools etc...
Their base was an ebb and flowing movement arising in sudden surges of attendees gathered via FB.

It was doomed to be infiltrated

2) They attempted to shave support off from the BNP.
It was actually the BNP who banned its members from joining the EDL.

This last approach is the one which merits condemnation. It was a very British thing to do. An attempt at the old divide and conquer.
Just like labour went after Islamists, the EDL wanted to severe the "soft fascists"...the young ones especially, from the BNP and other nasty groups.

There were about 20 Jews who were the Jewish division. Not significant and frankly some of them a bit odd... Moore was a bit nuts.

[Stephanie]

There is a BIG smear campaign against the brave heros Tommy Robinson (EDL) & Geert Wilders

http://newstime.co.nz/bullet-in-the-gun.html
EDL video: “There is a Bullet in the Gun … there is a FIRE in your Heart”

The judge say (in all counts) that Geert Wilders is NOT a racist!
But the coward quisilings mainsream media still call them "racist"
Shame on them!!!

[Road_Hog]

So Gellar, you'ved listened to your mate Roberta and you feel you have all the facts. Not that you'd want to listen to the other side.

Yep, she resigned, but only before she was pushed. Basically the rank and file of the EDL were sick of her antics. Ever since she joined the EDL she has been trying to hijack the EDL and had an agenda to use it for her own purposes. She has increasingly become hysterical and earned herself the title of Batty Berta.

The EDL is a populist street movement designed to highlight the creeping Islamification of Britain. Anyone is welcome to join that feels affected by this Islamification. However, the movement belongs to the people and is not there to be used as a vehicle for someone to achieve their own personal objectives.

So, please, no more of the Nazi stuff, stop reading the made up articles of the far left produced in Britain. If someone in an organisation becomes destructive and devisive, they are removed for the benefit of that organisation, no hidden agenda, just common sense.

Finally, a link below showing one of this week's many outburts from Roberta.

http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/7935/26721519724184365922610.jpg

Her sidekick Admin of the EDL-JDiv forum who wants to take over the running of the JDiv, came onto our forum this week and told a female member that he hopes a Muslim rapes her, one Robert Bartolomeus

[armaros]

I agree Moore is weird but don't deny that time after time nazi creeps infiltrate the EDL.

On one level or another, often via tangent groups they are there.

How can you remove them before the Left wins the argument. Yes they exaggerate and lie about who is who and who are leaders etc...The media is also unfair to the EDL which is also true,
still there is some fire with the smoke.

What do you do to remove the nazis and more importantly...what do you do to prevent them joining in the first place?

[deadinthewateredl]

The English Defence League started out with good intentions but over time was prone to infiltrators from the British National Party, ex and current supporters of the National Front and splinter groups from these groups. Leaving the English Defence League forum to look after itself was one of the biggest mistakes Tommy Robinson made. The English Defence Forum and all the English Defence Facebook divisions should have been watched with a keen eye but this was not done so it fell to a group who have spent a lot of time and effort in removing those who do not support their type of fascism. rest in peace edl

[Schnellmann_org]

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/50932/edl-jewish-division-leader-roberta-moore-quits

...Although she (Roberta Moore) described the EDL as "doing a fantastic job" she said
the party had been hijacked by elements who wanted to use it "for their own Nazi purposes".

Improvement suggestion:

improved ... or FULL transparency of the leadership and dismiss members immedately,
of whom has PROVEN as neo-nazis

[Spex]

What utter rubbish. The British National Party proscribed the EDL as soon as they started up because they were nothing more than drunken football hooligans. No BNP members have infiltrated the EDL,any BNP members would be expelled from the party for going on EDL marches or being a member of the EDL. If you believe that then you have no clue about the EDL and the political scene in the UK. Geller is just as bad using slur names such as nazi, neo fascist, terms used by the far left to try and brand people as nasties.

Steven Yaxley-Lennon aka “Tommy Robinson” was not the founder of the EDL he was just given a position as a leader and turned on the original founder. The English Defence League is now a completely basterdised version of what it was intended to be. Funny thing is there is nothing English about the EDL leaders. The leadership consists of 2 Irish Catholics from Luton, an Indian Sikh from Birmingham, a Jewish nazi from Brazil and an American Jewish Rabbi from California, who is supported by the Canadian Jewish Defence League.

[John P]

It would be hard to control the EDP because it is really nothing but a website that calls for anyone to counter muslim protests against UK military funerals and marches. There were no controls over who came and participated, other than the fact that liassons with police would promise to ensure that attendees didn't break the law. Of course, mutual fights with the muslim enemy did occur. However one ITV report revealed muslim membership in the EDL.

The BNP has made public statements in support of Israel, as a frontline state against aggressive islam. It would be hard for a group founded by neo-nazis to do so credibly.

Somebody should be confronting the muslim intimidators of UK troops. And that is: prosecutors.

[Truthiocity]

Ms. Gellar's stament, while an articulate expression of the reasons behind her current stance, did not provide enough specific information to me to warrent a change in my own opinion. I would like to know more before adjusting my opinion of the group.

The 2nd paragraph needs to be expanded into several paragraphs. The information there needs to be much more specific.

"However, it has become increasingly clear that the EDL has morphed and diverged from its original course."

How so? What has happened to show that this has happened?

"They now have clearly been infiltrated by the worst kind of influences"

Who are those infiltrators and what evidence is there against them?

"this terrible shift in the EDL's direction"

How have they shifted?

"EDL has done a Charles Johnson"

Who's Charles Johnson and what kind of shift did he make? I've lived in America my whole life and have never heard of him. Perhaps another analogy would be more easily understood. And remember, both JW and Atlas Shrugged have overseas readers. If I don't get it they definatly won't.

"And they are now unrecognizable to me."

How have they changed?

I am not criticizing Ms. Gellars position or reasoning, only the current version of the expression of the reasons for that position.

I value her view on this matter far mor then I can value what is said by dedicated EDL detractors, members of the EDL who may be in the midst of infighting or the british press.

I read some months ago in an official statment on the EDL site that there were difficulties between the EDL and it's jewish division. The jewish division had engaged in outreach with a jewish group that was considered extremist and had engaged in violence. The EDL leadership thought that association with that group would damage their precarious image. They insisted the leadership of the jewish division desist that outreach but the jewish division leadership persisted. I suspect this is the result of that.

The unfortunate truth is that the smaller europian political groups and their members, left, right, or center like the EDL are extremely cantankerous and bloody minded in the best of times compared to what we are used to on this side of the ocean and getting them to cooperate for extended periods is like herding cats that also have rabies. The beginnings of the Tea party was, well, a tea party compared to how these groups interact with each other.

People can argue all they like with that but we can all read the comments on this page.

[squarepeg]

Alternatively you could go to the EDL forum, and read the thread on Roberta Moore. See her support for the murder of British troops, see her minions call for the rape of a female EDL supporter. This is just her normal tactic of calling anyone who stands up to her a Nazi.

[grumpyguts@btinternet.com]

Pamela I am very disappointed in you that you have chosen to listen to Roberta Moore's allegations without checking any of the pertinent facts, i.e. Roberta is a well known liar!

Roberta has systematically brought the EDL down from within causing division and playing one person against another, I myself refused to join the JDL because it was her in charge and her friends as admins. I followed the thread on the Forum and found myself cringing at what was said how can you condone Jewish people making the comments that they did, appalling.

I suggest you go to the loathsome Expose people who have a full list of Roberta screenshots of what she said, what she called EDL members and the vindictive campaign she started against Helen Gower, a true EDL patriot, see link http://exposingon.tumblr.com/post/7077294583/ding-dong-the-witch-is-dead

I might even consider joining the JDL now if the EDL sort out the admins on there.

Please check your facts and you will find that it is Roberta Moore that is the one in the wrong and that you by siding with her will be doing your cause absolutely no good at all

[1389]

Ms. Geller is not in good company here.

If CJ or his minions are quoting Roberta Moore, she may very well be a plant, and the stuff she is saying not to be trusted.

We went through all of that with Vlaams Belang and everybody else in Europe. CJ lied about Vlaams Belang, and he can and will lie about everything else. I have Vlaams Belang on my blogroll now, and I will never have LGF there. ‘Nuff said about that.

Like every other political organization on this planet, every conservative and/or counterjihad organization has at least one plant, at least one delusional crazy person, and in addition to that, at least one person who, out of personal ambition or jealousy, seeks to undermine whomever are the leaders of the group at the movement. Calling them “Nazis” is a common activity before a flounce.

I would need to see an awful lot better evidence than this, before I bother to start paying attention to it.

I remember how badly the Serbs have been smeared, and with the very same terminology.. There was never any truth to it, and some of those doing the smearing were associated with actual ex-Nazis themselves.

[1389]

Charles Johnson is the proprietor of a once fairly reputable blog/forum called Little Green Footballs that has lapsed into well-deserved obscurity.

For some years, he appeared to back the counterjihad, or at least, he allowed readers to post counterjihad stories. CJ never did any real work, other than running the forum. He created an artificial atmosphere of exclusivity by not letting new members sign up very often.

Back in 2007, he suddenly changed; he banned all serious counterjihad people from his blog. He also back-stabbed and libeled the entire counterjihad movement, focusing first on the European spokespeople and parties, in effect calling everybody Nazis and looking for all kinds of flimsy reasons for doing so. This caused some damage to the counterjihad movement that lasted for a few months. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, we all realized that CJ was no longer one of us, and we stopped taking his accusations seriously.

Then, CJ broke with the center-right members still on his forum, expelled them all, and turned LGF into a hard-left blog that amounts to a paranoid and sinister online cult. Hardly anybody from 2007 or before is still there.

Now it seems to have started up all over again, and CJ is using one disaffected individual to attempt to split up and attack the counterjihad in the UK. LINK

Considering that CJ smears the Serbs in much the same way, I'll never believe anything he says unless it meets a far higher standard of independent verification than I would require from any normal person. Which CJ is NOT.

[juniper]

Thank you for this excellent piece: reblogged!! xxx

[Nat's daughter]

Pamela, after reading the interesting comments here, I do hope you investigate this further. I know you're a very busy lady but more clarification would be helpful. If there are true Patriots within the EDL, let's get behind them. Sure would be a damn shame if the nazi-pigs hijack this movement.

[ex Edl supporter]

Great link to Robertas outburst, would you also like to put up the racist comments of snowy that lead to Robertas outbust in that argument

[squarepeg]

Ms. Moore is on record as saying that she didn't mind Nazi's in the EDL as long as they kept quiet. Fortunately the EDL doesn't agree with her, and boots people out if they are found to be Nazis. The whole point of the EDL is that we are against extremism in any form.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lnljuuSkcj1qebzux.jpg

[juniper]

Just go on the EDL facebook wall, there's plenty of anti-semitism to see:

https://www.facebook.com/English.Defence.League.EDL

[juniper]

There are plenty of screenshots showing Hell Cow in cahoots with expose to attack Roberta Moore. She's pretty friendly with the mozzies from MAC too!

[juniper]

You will get the idea here:

www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-English-Defence-League-Jewish-Division-Official/220366781308574

[juniper]

Maybe you prefer these people: Bookmarks Toolbar

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=234104006601518&set=a.220372061308046.64410.220366781308574&type=1&theater

[juniper]

How is Roberta Moore "weird"? could you please explain this description so we can all know!

[juniper]

Here's the great Hell Gower:

www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=226318254046760&set=a.220372061308046.64410.220366781308574&type=1&theater

[Amerisrael]

Pamela,
Lionheart, instrumental in founding the EDL, has been blogging his frustration over the high-jacking of the good Israel-supporting, anti-jihadist group he founded for some time.

http://lionheartuk.blogspot.com/2011/04/who-really-founded-english-defence.html

[Road_Hog]

Yes, perhaps she could start with this article in Haaretz.

"What do you say to comments by a British Jewish organization against the cooperation of Jews with the EDL?

"They are all ignoramuses and think we are fascists. They think the EDL league is exploiting us, while it is really we who initiated the Jewish division. If anything, we are exploiting them."

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/magazine/what-are-israeli-flags-and-jewish-activists-doing-at-demonstrations-sponsored-by-the-english-defence-league-1.307803

And there we have it. As I said in my earlier post, Roberta had/has an agenda, which initially fitted in with the EDL's aims. However, she tried to hijack the EDL for her own purpose and this has caused division within the EDL and has turned people away.

Please people, do your own research or make Geller produce some facts, facts we can argue against, at the moment all we are getting us hearsay.

Lastly, as a reader of JihadWatch since 2005, I am deeply saddened that Robert Spencer would also post this without research, I expected more from him, he and the website has now gone down in my estimation because I will now question the veracity of other articles posted there.

[ignominius]

I am a member of the EDL. I am not a nazi, I do not support right wing political parties such as the BNP or the NF. I am, however a patriot, and I am saddened when Ms Geller tars us all as being Nazis and racists. It's a real pity because I have great respect for Ms. Geller and her work. I cannot comment on Roberta or her comments as I met only a couple of times in person, and whilst I do admire her passion for her cause I was sometimes taken aback by some of the things she said and did. What I can say is that the EDL by and large support Israel and the Jews. What many of the rank and file members couldn't understand was the apparent pre-occupation with all things Jewish, when we are the 'ENGLISH' Defence League. We are not anti-Jewish and we are not anti-Israel. We will continue to show our support for the Jewish state in the Middle East as it continues it's fight against the Islamist hordes.

But please, we are not and never will be supporters of right-wing politics, the politics of racial or ethnic separatism or supremacism. We are patriots, We are English and we will never surrender to Islam or any ideology that seeks to invade our country.

[morticia]

Yes, Lionheart was the founder of this movement, but when it was taken over by Tommy Robinson it seemed to make sense, they needed someone who would be more aggressive. Sorry to hear you don't want to give them your support Pamela, but your choice/ I will still continue to support the EDL because I think they provide an extremely important function within the small towns of Britain and act as an upfront watchdog, bulldog in terms of what is going on, they are an activist arm, which is badly needed in England in the stand against islam. Activists like you, Robert, and Brigitte Gabrial. The religion, racial orgin of those who are within the group is irrelevant, they have one objective and that is to preserve the British way of life, say nix to the faulty propagandized paradigm of cultural relativity, and confront steath jihad and sharia. Because of the immigration agreements in Canada between the federal government and each of the provinces, we too will soon be suffering much of the same difficulties as each province imports primarily islamic Pakistanians or islamic south asians, and encourages them to settle in smaller towns where they build enclaves. We are subject to the same destructive policies that led to the erosion of European cultures. I think EDL are very important to raise issues. If they are perceived by many as extreme right, or hooligans, it is irrelevant, because at least they are perceived, and it forces people to see there is a group of people who do not accept what is happening. It also brings out the worst in the extremist islamics which is great because people have the opportunity to see exactly how henious they are in their pervasive steath jihad and their extremist sharia values. EDL EDL EDL we need you in Don Mills Ontario, where those bastards have conned the birdbrained educators into taking over their schools, this one makes me cry first thing in the morning..

[Winnie]

I would want to see some evidence, as this is all rather vague. I don't know much about Roberta Moore but she appears to have caused one hell of a lot of trouble.

[Pamela Geller]

This is much bigger than Roberta Moore. It has been going on for some time. I have been warily watching. The EDL needs a purge. I am not going to discuss details so that the enemy has even more ammo.

[JW]

I LOVE how Charles Johnson has become a verb...

[juniper]

Nowhere does Ms Geller imply all EDL members are Nazis; she wrote this: "They(EDL) now have clearly been infiltrated by the worst kind of influences, something that had successfully staved off for years, and they're no longer staving it off."

Who was preoccupied with all things Jewish? What was this preoccupation by EDL members? Certainly the Jewish division was preoccupied with it, as was the LGBT division with things affecting gays. The Jewish division always supported the main EDL and attended many demos, waving English and Israeli flags to show solidarity with both. The rest is pure paranoia.

Also, it has come to my notice that the EDL are going to be waving tens of Israeli flags when they attend the Tower Hamlets demo. So Jews are kicked out of the EDL, but EDL can USE Jewish/Israeli imagery to wind up the mozlems? This is the most disgusting and despicable show of contempt for Jews and Israel and total treachery. I will be investigating this.

[juniper]

Basically, what the EDL are saying is that Jews in UK are not the equal to the rest of the people who live here, therefore we are not entitled to be part of their movemnent. In other words, second class citizens. This is of course, identical to mozlems who call all non-mozlems "kuffar" denoting their second class status.

Why should Pamela Geller, who is Jewish and strongly Zionist, support a group where people get together with the EDL's supposed enemies, the left and mozlems, to smear and attack and lie about the Jewish head of the Jewish division, and Israel? The Jewish division has always supported the main EDL 100%.

If the EDL are so great and strong, good; they wont need Ms Geller and she can concentrate on more important things.

[juniper]

Well, whining winnie, why don't you go in search of information? Or do you prefer bitching and back-stabbing like the rest of your brain-dead ilk?

[juniper]

For anyone interested in what Road Hog's opinions are, please go to the EDL forum and check them out. They are very illuminating, to say the least!

[Pamela Geller]

Tommy Robinson just released this statement to SIOA: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2011/06/tommy-robinson-any-rogue-elements-within-the-edl-that-go-against-our-mission-statement-will-be-remov.html

[squarepeg]

Your days of meddling in the background of the EDL are over. You thought we were just thugs you could manipulate into a race war. Well that one was never going to happen, because we're not racists. Your credibility, the little you had left, is shot. You make accusations without evidence, and smear patriots who are working hard to defend their country. You're as bad as any other extremist.

[marc goldberg]

The reply from Juniper just shows the type of people that Roberta Moore associates with, doesn't it Cassandra, Juniper is also a particular nasty person that I have watched which alas the whole Jewish Division admins seem to be and the few followers on the JDL all seem to have been of the same mindset.

[marc goldberg]

Also Mortica is Roberta Moore, fitting name!!!! She is now trying to jump on the Paul Ray bandwagon hoping to cling to the EDL and probably join in all the thwarted efforts to overthrow Mr Robinson & Mr Carroll. Pamela from one Jew to another Jew you have really aligned yourself with a bad apple there, rethink the whole situation logically, they have got rid of the most rotten apple from the barrel with Roberta, don't have that rotten apple in your barrel now.

[Road_Hog]

Please feel free to copy and paste (plus link) them here. You are suggesting that they are contentious. Please provide the facts, not hearsay. I will come back and defend (not that there is anything to defend) anything you feel is wrong.

So, stop with the insinuations and start with factual information.

I'm waiting.

[juniper]

Thank you! I always take heart from that military aphorism: 'If you're taking flak, you are over the target'!!

[marc goldberg]

Of course you shouldn't be discussing your plan of action on here but do take note of all the comments, read everything thoroughly and you will see the truth, it is there as clear as day for you to see. Ignore Roberta and Juniper (Cassandra) and the lies that they tell you I have watched the EDL from the start and would not join JDL because of who was in charge. They are removing people from their organisation regularly and Roberta just tries to smear everyone and anyone who argues with her. There must be hundreds if not thousands of them where she has besmirched or smeared someone when they don't agree with her and the EDL has lost a lot of good members because of her

[ignominius]

Quote
"Now that the person whom I most trusted in the EDL, Roberta Moore, has resigned, as she was increasingly uncomfortable with the neo-fascists that had infiltrated the administration of the group, I too am withdrawing my support from the EDL. I hope that genuine anti-jihadists in Britain will also leave the EDL and work with Roberta on starting a new group that will resist definitively and firmly all attempts to divert it from its mission of fighting against jihad and for human rights."

I have contact with many of the leadership, I write articles used by the EDL and I can tell you that there is no change in the attitude of the leadership or the members of the EDL nor is there a change in the politics of the EDL. So to accuse us of now harbouring neo-fascists is a damnable lie. It's so quickly forgotten that we were accused of infighting because at one of our demonstrations, we expelled a group who displayed far-right attitudes. We have consistently shown that we are not right-wing. I, for one, would have left a long time ago if there was even a whiff of right wing neo or old fashioned fascism or nazism in the EDL. Anyone who comes to the EDL with such views is quickly shown the door.

Roberta, and I've supported her with the EDL members, has made unfounded and unsupported accusations. I won't ascribe anything to her motives for having done so, but I do think that these accusations are being made because she never gained the kind of support from the EDL membership that she thought she deserved and may have even been dismayed at the hostiility that many had towards her. A hostility created by some of her actions and some of things she said. That hostility certainly does not come about from anti-semitism, or anti-jewish feeling. I do thnk that much of it was from a personal dislike of Roberta.

As for winding up the Islamists in Tower Hamlets, I am not aware that Roberta has a copyright on the Israeli national flag. We are going to Tower Hamlets to show the people and the government the festering hatred for the Jews, Israel and all other Kuffar that dare resist Islam and it's evil teachings. We are going to show that Tower Hamlets is not a Muslim only enclave, but part of Great Britain and open to all irrespective of religion, nationality,race, political or sexual persuasion.

One last point I'd like to make. Roberta has rather forgotten that we are the **ENGLISH** Defence League. We are not the Isreal Defence League. Our primary raise awareness of the rise of Islamism and it's dangers and defending our culture, traditions and way of life that is unique to Britain. Anything else is secondary.

We support the right of Israel and Jews to live in peace and security in their legal homeland and we support the Jews in their effortts to resist the Islamist assaults. However, we need to focus on our country and the defence of our part of the free world first.

[juniper]

Don't you understand your own language? I invited people to look at your comments for themselves, THAT is not hearsay, numbnuts!

[juniper]

You need to read Tommy Robinson's latest press release!

[juniper]

I didn't know Roberta lived in Canada...

[heh]

heh heh heh

[Road_Hog]

No, you provided no link, so most people won't know where to go to look. There is also two forums.

You know most people won't go and bother to search the many threads and comments, so you're hoping that people will just accept your aspersions as gospel.

All I'm asking you to do is post a few direct links as examples for them to see for themselves. Just post the links, or show yourself up as the fraud and liar that you are.

[ignominius]

I wouldn't say that Roberta is bad apple, but she is working towards a somewhat different agenda to that of the EDL. We in the EDL are concerned primarily with Great Britain and England in particular, but support Israel as by-product of our fight against radical Islam and recognise the commonality of interests between us and the people of Israel in the world-wide fight against radical Islam. What ever anyone thinks of Roberta, she is genuine in her passion for her cause and her homeland and shouldn't be villified for it.

[Tom Hough]

Here in the USA the Nazi's try to infiltrate the patriot movement. Many are those guys that have fallen for the protocols of Zion conspiracy. I also strongly believe that the Southern Poverty Law Center folks are establishing Nazi identities so that they can put Nazi propaganda on a website then hold their own comments up as prove that patriots are Nazi's. I suggest that when Nazi's salute at the ralleys beat the hell out of them. That way if they are Nazi you get the satisfaction of whipping a Nazi. If they are communist from the anti fascist groups infiltrating so that the group will look Nazi then you have the satisfaction of whipping a communist and the beatings can be held up as an example that you are policing your group to keep out Nazi influence.

[ivan the yid]

I have read this story and the comments with interest. There are two simple facts here. The first is that BNP and the much smaller NF are going to hell in a handcart. The BNP is split by internal divisions, expulsions, court cases, constitutional chicanery etc. The party is £750000 in debt and losing members fast. Many of these members are previously loyal 'activists' who were the backbone of the Party but have had enough of Nick Griffin. As an example where I live in Bradford the lynchpin of the local Branch was a local businessman (and major donor to BNP) Cllr Paul Cromie. Cromie was one of the two (!) BNP Cllr's to be re-elected last year (by 12 votes) when most BNP Cllr's lost their seats. This year his wife, Lynda, was re-elected by over three hundred votes, the only other BNP Cllr to be re-elected this year (Cath Duffy) held her seat by 5 votes. Both Cromie's have since resigned from BNP and will be Independent Cllr's on Bradford Met.

Many former BNP activists are looking for ways to continue to 'fight the good fight' against the forces of Islam. Some have joined the NF, EFP (England First Party) or EDP (English Democrats Party). Many would like to join UKIP but UKIP often refuses to let ex-BNP members join. Those who have not joined other parties have often joined EDL. One advantage of this to many activists is that many of the political parties I have just listed, often are only active in their local branches once a year ie. in the runup to the May Elections season. The activists have nothing to do the rest of the year. BNP was better than most of the small parties with a wide range of 'other' activities between elections such as summer camps, 'weekend schools' and various other campaigns to keep activists busy. These other activities were among the first casualties of the collapse of the BNP. In comparison EDL offers activists something to do nearly every weekend of the year. This has made it popular with ex BNP/NF activists and with many young people who would otherwise have joined parties such as the BNP. Many BNP branches are not even encouraging new members to join as part of their revolt against Nick Griffin.

The second point to make (and a much shorter one !) is that EDL is currently (despite a lot of talk) not structured as a political party. There are few rules that new members have to comply with, no vetting of new membership applications. As a result it is easy for ex BNP/NF members to join. Some of these are perfectly decent people but some are extremists, anti Semitic, neo Nazi etc. These are the main people causing the problems in EDL. They have left Nick Griffin's madhouse and are contaminating the EDL.

[juniper]

All they have to do is register with the forum, wait for you to admit them, pay a fee and then they can look you up!

[marc goldberg]

No London, quite near me.

[armaros]

Her whole approach to the EDL was misplaced....and weird...as she is a Jewish nationalist and the EDL is an English nationalist movement.

She refused to understand why Jews in the UK refused to join the EDL as Jews.
She called some of them names for refusing to see it her way.

[Road_Hog]

So, you have no evidence then? No link then? You're just lying, aren't you Roberta?

You don't have to pay to join the forum, Roberta.

[Robert Bartholomeus]

Look at all the trashy nazi's that hijacked the EDL forum coming here spouting their nonsense...

I personally refuted EVERY SINGLE 'POINT' you tried to smear on Roberta and left you with an astonishing silence. All you can do now is cry about how I insulted you 'patriots' and strike back on some disgusting nazi prostitute who spread vicious lies about me.

You are the most inadequate and imbecilic nazi's I have ever seen on facebook.

In fact: It is YOU who are government plants thattry to tear the EDL apart. You failed miserably in hiding it with some romantic babbling about 'patriottism'.

The fact is: You are simply JEALOUS at Roberta Moore becauseshe had more influence than you, is liked by Tommy and has done much more than any of you drunk idiots could even imagine to accomplish. You are a pathetic joke.

Roberta Moore all the way. You do not even have a clue at what connection she has with Pamela Geller you fools. Roberta wasn't asked to step down, she did dueto the offer she was given. Tommy doesn't want her to leave. And Roberta will continue to work with Tommy, because Tommy is NOT like you. Tommy is a great guy with class and integrity. You are the lowest of filth in England right now. Lower than the muslims and the antifa's. Keep dwelling in your rotting moral hell; it will be your spiritual graves.

[morticia]

Great and hopefully they get their problems fixed. Either way, I support you always, EDL too and Israel forever. I think there are so few courageous front line leaders in this struggle and there are bound to be difference amongst you frontliners and of course there will be the ongoing sabatours. The qualities you must have in order to keep this up are really mind boggling, just add 25 stregnth of character adjectives here --------Have a wonderful July 4th. Dianne

[Pat]

Is that Robert or Roberta?
;)

[Phillip Grey]

Dear Ms. Geller,
As Chairman of the Canadian Defence League, and a staunch supporter of the English Defence League(EDL), I find your open rebuke of their organisation a bit premature and somewhat presumptuous at best. I realise that you have a large readership and following and have rallied against many of the same radical Islamic issues that we deal with as well. That said, I would like to suggest that you carefully weigh all the facts before making such assertions. We appreciate the fact that you have stood up to the forces of evil ,as very few have, in this current dispensation of time where political correctness has taken centre stage in our societies.
Ms. Geller I’m sure you can understand how manipulative the media and governments can sometimes be(using black propaganda against groups it deems a ‘threat’), especially when they are at wits end when it comes to resolving issues that are beyond their control. They either choose to placate and appease or take drastic measures. Such is the case, of Europe and specifically England; it is quite evident that they would choose not to do the latter. From this we can see why the English Defence League has risen to the occasion. It’s not easy but they try and do their best. You, myself, Tommy Robinson and others are willing to pay the price because we believe in what is right. By casting a negative aspersions on the EDL it will do one of two things: Help divide it or strengthen its resolve while at the same time possibly diminishing your credibility. Either way, it’s a no win situation and a boost for our ‘enemies’ plus, I might add, we have 1 billion or so.
We support your initiative against the Ground Zero mosque, as with other related issues, and we could certainly openly criticize your (not that we see any) efforts to some degree but we don’t because we are all on the same page, in my estimation. In studying Political Science and social movements at university, I learned you will always have that 1% who will go astray; doing things contrary to the cause. The larger the group, the more issues of control you have. Therefore, it is incumbent upon those of us who are revered as leaders in this ‘warfare’ to be tactful and mindful of what’s at stake and concerning each other. While we don’t condone racist manifests or displays of hatred, such persons displaying Nazi salutes or racial superiority, we do sometime cross thin demarcation line so to speak, that can sometimes put us in that ‘territory’. It is also quite obvious that there are elements that despise the large following of support behind the EDL and those individuals will be prompted to act out against it. Could I implore you not to indirectly be a part of that ‘element’ and state the facts for what they truly are? We wish you all the best in your future endeavours against radical Islam.
Sincerely yours,
Phillip Grey
Chairman – Canadian Defence League

[Kufar Dawg]

It's curious that CJ still supports Israel.

He's obviously got a screw loose to call those who criticize Islam
for what it is as hate groups -- especially when citing the notoriously
corrupt SPLC as his authority for this.

I wonder if CJ has been compromised by threats and/or cash on behalf of
the islamo-nazis?

[Kufar Dawg]

"Radical Islam" eh? Where exactly does "moderate" Islam exist? Because it definitely isn't in any Islamic state on the face of this planet.

[Heather Bowen]

@Spex Lennon was adopted by Irish Catholic parents and is English so whats your point?
A Scot or an Irishman who grows up in England cant be a real patriot or an EDL member? Thats crap.
EDL is an all inclusive group who welcomes all those who want to end the bastardization of England.
What Ms.Gellar has done today in this post is a disgrace to the counter jihad mission and a successful movement.
The EDL is made up of thousands of Brits who actually show up and demonstrate.
I know football is big in England but just because it was started by those labeled as hooligans IT HAS EVOLVED into far more than that today.
Seriously disgusted by this as I have had much respect for Ms.Gellar and her work. The gains the EDL has made surpasses anything that has been done elsewhere.
To undermine it is outrageous,shameful and shallow
I have known many people within the EDL for years and over those years I have heard of this trusted source Ms.Gellar speaks of,Roberta, as an unhinged and shifty character.
Her tactics have put the heat on the EDL and yet she comes out as your trusted source?
So this truly makes me wonder about who Ms.Gellar calls a trusted source.

I am beside myself at all this. As I know these good people in the EDL. I know all the time,effort and hours they dedicate to fighting to regain reason in England. All the crap and risk they and their families have endured for the good of England and America and this is the press they get??From a fellow counter jihadist to boot???

Like Paul Ryan said when you have friends like this who needs enemies.

I am totally disgusted and offended for the good people that have now been marginalized by one who should be a supporter.

And Juniper the EDL fb pages are hacked daily by MAC and ZHC. There are a boatload of EDL in name only pages that pop up each day that are used as disinformation and smear campaign.
If you knew about the EDL you would know this. To say EDL is anti s emetic is to say I am.Its absolutely FALSE and unfair. If you knew about the EDL from the EDL and not the media you would share my outrage.
As I have now realized that a woman I believed in would undermine a worthy, Pro Israel,Pro all colors creeds races sexuality at the word of a questionable yet trusted source?
I want to know why Ms Gellar had no closer sources,associates or friends with EDL members or members? I find that concerning as being Isolationists in this mission will fail. I noticed with Elisabeth Wolfe S trial and other Islamo fascist fighters are not covered here.Ive seen support for the Great Geert and Spencer but I have to question why it is so limited... I had read and had been skeptical to read that within the counter jihad community there has been contention within the movement due to conflicting attitudes w/ Gellar. Should I believe that and print it on my blog and bad mouth a woman who has up to this crap been doing great work?
Ms. Gellar you need to do damage control as you have under minded thousands of good human beings who have been successful in spreading the necessity of this worthy cause. You have not made them address this neo facsism issue as they have been rooting it out and working at solving the issue far longer than your trusted source just so happened to be canned.
Ms. Gellar you are irrefutably wrong to basically tell your readers the EDL are no good. The audacity.
Disgusted.
HEATHER BOWEN
MASSACHUSETTS
NO SURRENDER

[Raoul Machal]

I would suggest to take this unsavoury matter off-line.

Article, statements, comments and all.

This matter is much better suited for quiet diplomacy, nothing can be achieved by verbal mudslinging in public forum. Ask yourself: Who is the only possible beneficiary from this?

Just my two bob.

[Heather Bowen]

Road Hog is right Juniper.

Totally disgusted with this pettiness.
To know Spencer is feeding into this wad of crap really makes me think I have been deluding myself that these people were above the fray.
No one is Capt Counter Jihadi and we need to all give the good and decent people the respect to give them the benefit of the doubt. AND do the work and find out facts prior to making such a derogatory condemnation.
We are talking about our freedom and survival here! And to see Gellar and Spencer spreading nonsense that even MAC would be happy to share makes me wanna loose my lunch

[Heather Bowen]

You are so wrong and you should not speak when you know nothing that is based upon fact.
The EDL is saying no such thing Juniper, You are!

[Danny Jeffrey]

If Ms Gellar is indeed correct about the changing role of the EDL, I would love to see the evidence supporting her beliefs. History has proven the wisdom in the concept of a bad apple in every bushel. That "Bad Apple" is inevitable, and is to be found in any and every organization. The Tea Party, of which I am a proud member, has attracted its share. The CIA and the FBI has had their share of infiltrators in the past and today they are even being appointed. On the other side of the pond I have no doubt that M15 and Scotland Yard have both, time and again, been infiltrated, but that does not mean that any of these organizations have lost sight of their goals, nor does it mean that they lack sufficient members to achieve the principles to which they subscribe.
To condemn a group for the shortcomings of a few seems hardly fair. Were this indeed acceptable I would have to condemn the US military for the acts of Major Hasan on that fateful day, or the young Muslim soldier who lobbed a grenade at fellow soldiers s few years ago. I shall not turn my back on our military for the treachery of a few, and they are but a few. Look at the many infiltrators in all three branches of our government. I resent them. I fear them. I dread the daily changes in this nation that are due to them, and yet I do not turn my back on America.
The same holds true in England for they too have a government that has been infiltrated and while the EDL regards these interlopers in the same fashion that I see ours, they have not turned away from a devotion to England, nor have they turned away from their love and respect of Israel.
While on the subject of bad apples, I read about some liberal Jews in Israel who were actually helping the Muslim protesters gain access to Israel through certain points of the protective barriers. Should anyone turn their back on Israel because of a few disloyal Jews? What of the liberal Jews who helped elect Obama and still support him, or those who have donated to the Flotilla, or the Jewish Professors in our universities who stand before impressionable young students and decry the mere existence of Israel every day?
Recently One member of the EDL announced his belief in "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion." That was proven to be a fraudulent document many years ago, and for anyone today to fall for its lies and hatred, I can only express pity, for that person is weak minded. As I understand it, this pitiful individual is no longer with the EDL.
If the EDL has actually taken on a new role and adopted the premise of Antisemitism and Fascism then I shall join Ms Gellar in her denunciation of this group, but until I see evidence that their goals have changed, I remain a staunch supporter of The English Defense League.

[juniper]

Well lose it, no loss to mankind.

[Robert Bartholomeus]

Marc "goldberg" is marc chamberlain on facebook. He uses the name "Goldberg' to create the image of being a wealthy Jew.

I will inform my friend Rosie about this.

[j]

Roberta Moore must be a secret muslim

[juniper]

I would like to divert all posters, if they have the time, to the Jewish division FB page, where they can view some evidence. Please check out the screen shots.

www.facebook.com/pages/EDL-English-Defence-League-Jewish-Division-Official/220366781308574

[MAD JEWESS]

I see the EDL in chat-rooms all the time on paltalk.com.. Jew haters.
Good, now ya all are found out.
Ms Geller has been too kind.
Later..You better repent England.
G-d does NOT change.
"I WILL BLESS THOSE THAT BLESS YOU AND CURSE THOSE THAT CURSE YOU!"

[fern]

Maybe, Road Hog, if he can just for a moment, drag himself away from his plethora of fibs and half-truths, tell us all, why suddenly the other board has suddenly been closed down to public viewing? More scheming and planning p'haps?

[fern]

My oh my, what a load of utter hogwash.

[fern]

Squarepeg? I was going to suggest the other place where you so often hang out, ukfd, that sure would be an eye opener, but alas, since all this took off, your 'mates' have closed it down to public viewing. Must be a coincidence, of course.

[fern]

LOL....another one of their sock puppets

[fern]

Jeesh, that link is looking a tad thread bare Hog, also, please stop insulting peoples intelligence with your nonsense.

Don't worry, you'll get your facts soon enough.

[fern]

Huh, that coming from someone who knowingly gives its fellow (edl) members a platform to advertise the BNP on the other 'splinter' planning and scheming board you frequent.

It'll all come out in the wash!

[Stogie]

I would like informed parties to read the sordid facts about Roberta Moore, who has ties to a violent extremist group in the USA, and for that reason was forced out of the EDL. She has a big ax to grind with the EDL and her claims of neo-nazi infiltration appear to be borne of personal pique rather than facts.

Read it here:
http://saberpoint.blogspot.com/2011/06/roberta-moore-and-sliming-of-english.html

Pamela, if you have any specific facts to support your statements about the EDL, you should make them public; to do less is to engage in innuendo and baseless rumor.

[fern]

I used to think quite highly of you Ignominius, you are intelligent person and know your Islam. But, dark side and lacking in honesty, comes to mind.

[fern]

Sock puppet!

[fern]

Another sock puppet!

[fern]

From where I am sitting, the only people to have been been 'shot' squarepeg, is you and your ilk.

[fern]

That description sounds like another group of people to me, in very close proximity to your good self, sock puppet.

[fern]

....and your conniving mates are what exactly Road Hog? They are the ones who have been working to a different agenda, but you already know this.

HOGwash, the one person that feeds you from a petri dish, the one who leads you all by the nose, has publicly said on a few occasions he will never acknowledge Israel, in fact, if you read his many comments you will glean from those, that he has more loyalties to the Palis, but you know this too!

[fern]

Jeesh, all these lies and half truths, it is enough to make your hair curl, isn't it.

[fern]

It'll all come out in the wash Stogie - and no doubt people will then see where all this mud slinging/scheming/witch hunt originated from.

[juniper]

What this is about is a group who gained control of EDL and used the classic anti-semitic ruse of scapegoating the Jewish division, separating it from the rest of EDL by lying and smearing the head of the Jewish division. They searched out blood libels on-line to throw at us, accusing us of being terrorists. I have posted a screen grab on the Jewish division page which shows Hell Gower's feelings towards Roberta and myself; she admits there is no reason for her hatred. Neither she nor her cohorts - apart from Aeneas, has ever met either Roberta or myself.

We in the Jewish division totally refute the blood libels, smears and lies that this group have heaped upon us and I charge them to provide concrete evidence that there was a plot, apparently with "Puck Greenman" for Roberta to take over the EDL. It is complete garbage and I'm surprised that a lawyer like Gavin Boby would put his signature to such an egregious pile of bullshit.

Also, I would like to ask all these smear merchants where they were when Roberta, me and a few others were around at 6 in the morning at various locations in London, protesting against mozlem hate-speech?

Hell Gower threw us out of the research group to the admin. She blocked me from posting on the forum. She and her SD gang have spent all their energies on attacking us and where has it got them? What are their achievements? A few demos? Newspapers don't even bother to report on them any more.

[Ran Gilead]

You knew perfectly well all along that original EDL founders Paul Ray, Chris Renton and Tommy Robinson were all BNP you lying fool

The EDL is absolutely riddled with Nazis and always has been

[Heather Bowen]

So Fern,
Exactly what is "utter hogwash"?
If you have something to say,then have the fortitude to back up you romper room tactic of hit and run.

[Heather Bowen]

What I am trying to figure out is why you are so vindictive and hateful towards those who are righteously outraged by this unfair and uncalled for blog post by Gellar's.

Are you a AS gate keeper? Patrolling the comment section to blast any of those who oppose Gellar's posts? You are not doing her or SIOA any favors. Doesn't matter if you are affiliated with her or not,as your consistent defensive attacks towards any inkling of dissent makes it appear so.

This post has been illuminating in the very worst of ways. It reveals to me Gellar does not respect nor understand the EDL movement and obviously has felt no need to.
The woman that Gellar is, having dedicated her life,safety,blood, sweat and tears to the counter jihadi movement it strikes me as unbelievable and disturbing that she could rationalize denouncing the EDL.
The audacity to undermine those making much deserved headway due to the righteous determination and human decency that stand for.These men and women t have given just as much of themselves as Ms.Gellar has if not more.
But this is and should never be a pissing contest
England is teetering in the brink of civil war due to the two tiered justice system and the willful abandonment of the native culture and people for.
The citizens,the children,the soldiers and the victims of brutality need the EDL to stand up for them and unite the good and decent people.
The EDL came to NYC on 911 to stand with us on the anniversary.
The EDL stood outside of the American Embassy in London to stand up for Americans when MAC and Islamoheathens protested their beloved Bin Laden's death.
It consistently is the EDL who defend America and Israel from these hateful thugs on the streets of England without even being asked or EVER a thanks.
And this is what they get.

[fern]

Relatively new to Facebook so when I found the EDL Divisions on Facebook (after the original EDL forum was suddenly closed down) I had this naive idea that all the divisiveness and derision caused by a core element of EDLrs on the EDL forum, that Facebook would be a more welcoming change and I could hunker down there - how naive of me!

Never in all my days could I have ever imagined or contemplated that I would witness so much relentless (public) animosity, bullying, cruel and unjust hatred being rustled up towards other EDLrs, particularly, the Jewish Division (even Ruby of the Christian Pakistani Div didn't escape their clutches). The evil had obviously been seeping out from one place (EDL forum) into another (Facebook) - now they are inextricably linked.

I take my hat off to Roberta, she has stood her ground when so many would have packed it all in and walked away. Not this lady, she is made of brave stuff. It takes more than guts to continually put yourself out there in the public domain with so many crackpots in her midst, with a barrage of missiles being fired from all directions, which included so called fellow patriots!

Relentlessly hounded, stalked, every move monitored, EDLrs deliberately whipping up hate amongst other divisions towards this lady, advertising her personal information thus putting Roberta and her family at even greater risk. The list is endless, and it is a disgraceful way to act, especially from those, who are not even our shared enemies, but people within the EDL, who unfortunately appear to hold a little too much power, enabling them to get away with all this nastiness.

One last thing - in London, a shop owner selling Israeli products, was continually hounded and boycotted by lefties and muslims, so much so they eventually had to uproot their business and move away. The LGBT and the Jewish Division and a few good people from the EDL would staunchly counter any boycott demos. What struck me was the mere fact this could have been prevented if there was proper unity within the EDL. Maybe the EDL could have co-ordinated with the Jewish Division and pulled in some outside support from other members within the EDL, but the rot is so deep, the power within controlling so many divisions, is in the wrong hands, so this didn't happen. Shame on them.

[juniper]

Fern, just read this on the casuals united blog, they are affiliated to EDL and their people are the same as EDL. Check out the ambivalence of their attitude to Jews; the very fact that they have separated us out and are scapegoating us is clear evidence of their nazi-type MO, however they deny it and call on various people to prove that they have been "cleared" of being anti-semitic.
We never put ourselves above or outside EDL, this whole conspiracy has been whipped up by Hell Gower in admin and her stormtroopers, from pure jealousy of Roberta. Yet Hell is a coward and will not come out and speak openly about any of this, just hides in the shadows like a big fat hairy spider in the middle of her dirty web.
Now, talk can be cheap, missions statements deceptive, and it could turn out that these sane-sounding intentions are really a cover for something sinister. This is where you have investigative journalists examining things undercover, like Sigurd Ericson did with the English Defence League. In his report published at EuropeNews, he gave them a clean bill of health with regards to racism, fascism and violence-prone. Talking to both leadership and the rank-and-file of the EDL, he found that it consists of straight English citizens concerned with the threat of Sharia in Britain, and working in line with the EDL Mission Statement to counter it.

In any case, it is good to know the substance of what the EDL is being accused of promoting:

First Fascism, an ideology out of post-WWI Italy: Fascism is totalitarian, in that it regulates every aspect of the citizens’ lives. It is single-party, in that the “perfect” system needs no dissent. It is authoritarian, believing in the wisdom of one supreme leader. It is violent, in that its adherents freely apply violence to implement it, then later war to glorify it. Finally, it forbids any opposition to the fascist state.

Mussolini, the head of the original Italian fascist movement, was an active socialist before World War I, but was expelled from the socialist party for his pro-war attitude. Originally devised as a total welfare state (thus the term ‘Totalitarian’), the fascism turned out not to viable in practice, degenerated into opportunism, and eventually disgraced itself entirely through the alliance with the National Socialists of Germany.

Since fascism is explicitly anti-democratic and the EDL explicitly pro-democratic, blaming the EDL for being ‘fascists’ fails a simple “Check the facts” test. Anyone making that charge should back it up with extensive and detailed evidence, not merely personal opinions and judgements.

Next up is “Nazism”, or more correctly, “National Socialism”, an ideology out of post-WWI Germany. In contrast with fascism, which has been emulated in a variety of forms both before WWII and later, National Socialism doesn’t really transplant well, neither in space or in time, from Weimar Germany to anywhere else. If one studies the circumstances of Weimar Germany, for instance in the excellent book When Money Dies (whose prime concern is the hyperinflation), the inapplicability of National Socialism under any other circumstances becomes quite clear. The anti-Capitalist sentiment of National Socialism in Germany might have some resonance with the extreme left in some places, but largely comes across as a confused and incoherent, including a profound misunderstanding of capitalism, as this quote from an original National Socialist flyer (propaganda nausea alert) shows:
What does anti-Semitism have to do with socialism? I would put the question this way: What does the Jew have to do with socialism? Socialism has to do with labor. When did one ever see him working instead of plundering, stealing and living from the sweat of others? As socialists we are opponents of the Jews because we see in the Hebrews the incarnation of capitalism, of the misuse of the nation’s goods.
The English Defence League has pre-empted any slurs about Nazi sympathies through creating an explicit Jewish Division. That should send any self-respecting National Socialist scrambling for the exit, and cause any allegations about such sympathies within the EDL to vanish in a puff of logic and laughter.

However, having an explicit Jewish branch opens the door to a different class of problems, that of Jewish supremacists, who are more interested in defending Israel than in defending England. While obviously unrelated to the idea of a National Socialist agenda, this can be difficult in itself:

Just recently, the leader of the EDL Jewish Division, Roberta Moore, quit the position, quoting that “she had been offered work on “an international level” elsewhere”, complaining that the EDL ”had been hijacked by elements who wanted to use it “for their own Nazi purposes”. ”, and posting the subtle slander ””I sincerely hope that the leaders will get the strength to squash the Nazis within,””

These are serious allegations, but fortunately they fly in the face of common sense. Not only has the EDL made quite a few moves (racial inclusiveness, Jewish Division, pro-Israel rallies) that would scare away any self-respecting Nazi. It also makes no sense that Britain, who carried out the heaviest lifting during World War II would be home to any meaningful pro-Nazi sentiment.

Also, given the fact of the Holocaust and the endorsement of the Holocaust by the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, it makes little sense to accuse an anti-Sharia movement of having sympathies for the National Socialists. Doing so incurs a burden of proof to lift, or the allegations become libel – and in the case of the National Socialists, even blood libel. Failing to provide adequate evidence for allegations as severe as these constitutes intellectual dishonesty. Further, internal disagreements as to how much the EDL should concern itself with the plight of Israel should never degenerate into drawing the Nazi card inside an organisation that has already distanced itself solidly from Nazi ideology.

Third up is the most mysterious and intangible of allegation, that of “right

[fern]

Oh dear! Panic! These days so many people are reliant on the EDL, which is totally understandable in this climate. Ignoring a real threat which in time could change the whole direction of the EDL if it is not properly harnessed and kept within the absolute confines of the Mission Statement, is dangerous for the EDL and is somewhat foolish, selfish and naive of others, who are hell bent on NOT taking on board genuine warning signals.

Why am I not surprised he has turned the tables around and virtually blamed it all on the Joos! Obviously hasn't got a clue what has gone on. For reasons of his own, whatever they may be (I daren't hazard a guess on here), he has drawn his own somewhat biased conclusions, based on what? His own opinions lol. Does the person venture away from his own blog and facebook page. Does he venture onto the EDL forum(s) and the other forum, the splinter group, and other facebook pages affiliated with EDL, obviously not?

The link to the item is on the main page of EDL fb but you'll have to scroll quite a way down, as it was added hours ago.

[feeblemind]

And while you all squabble among yourselves, Islam is steadily taking over the UK, with help from the Left.

It is important to prioritize the threats. Which is more likely to occur, a Muslim dominated UK or a Nazi dominated UK?

I haven't been to this blog in a couple of year, but I have favorable memories of it.

It has turned into a nasty, nasty place.

I won't be back.

[David Ross]

Pamela.. did you believe Roberta because she is Jewish or because she spoke the truth? THe EDL distanced it self from Roberta because she was linked to the extremist Jewish Defense League which has leaders in Jail for BOMB PLOTS. It was right for the EDL to so distance themselves and it beggars belief that you haven't caught up with this. Is it possible that Roberta sees this distancing as some how a neo Nazi morph?
I hope not and we in Australia hope you will not be so easily swayed without looking at the big picture.

[David Ross]

You might also remember that the Daily Star..owned by a Jew..was absolutely stomped on by other establishment Jews when it printed an article 'apparently' supportive of the EDL.. so.. think more deeply.

[trinovante]

Im a proud member of the EDL,i march,i contact the media in defence of the EDL and i have had the police knocking on my door because i called the Metropolitan police when Muslims burnt an American flag outside the American embassy on the anniversary of 9/11.I support Israel and im on record as stating that on two EDL forums countless times.

So,fern,juniper and Bartholomeus(or what ever your name is),try and call me a Nazi ?
Roberta Moore was and still is a power crazy freak as are you three,you have not made ANY contribution to this comments section,all you have done is insult and insinuate !
It's there for all to see and it's because of you and your "ilk",that all this has come about.

The EDL is a people's protest movement,not a plaything of your's or Moore's !
Let me tell you how the rank and file members of the EDL really feel.Some of us support Israel and some don't give a toss,so according to you lot and Ms Gellar(whom i used to respect but no longer do),those that don't give a toss are Nazi's.

In the UK we have Muslims trying to kill us,rape our children,corrupt our voting system,creating no go areas for non Muslims and trying to introduce sharia law,so i think that some of us can be forgiven for thinking of the UK first and Israel second,would you not agree ?
What support will Israel get if the UK falls to Islam and that is not as far fetched as you might think !

This was never about anti Semitism,it was about ego's,your's,Moores and Ms Gellar's.
Withdrawing support works both ways,until Ms Gellar post's a full apology to the membership of the EDL,i will be withdrawing my support for Israel,i will no longer fight their corner on the net,i will not attend any demo in support of Israel and i will not challenge any anti Semitic comment's i may hear,why would i ? After all,the EDL is rife with Nazi's.

Last thing,fern,Squarepeg is a personal friend of mine and he is no anti Semite,so stop your pathetic smears or post the evidence.
You and your little minions should hang your heads in shame!!!!

[fern]

http://englishdefenceleague.org/content.php?281-Israel-and-the-Unholy-Trinity&s=ce420b44b7e003baa3600988111cfe9e

Great video and article. The vid is a must watch.

When both were added on the front page of the English Defence League website, the usual rabble rousers/dissenters/antis affiliated with the EDL went into a state of utter frenzy and spent days whining and whingeing about both. Lol.