Pamela Geller, American Thinker: It Isn't Political Correctness, It's Shariah

My latest oped in the American Thinker:

Here's an excerpt. Please read the whole thing and comment over at the Thinker:

Shariah law forbids criticism of Islam. And here we are.

We are witnessing an Islamized America. This is well beyond political correctness. We are enforcing Shariah law. We will not insult Islam. That is Shariah law. We self censor. That is Shariah law. We disrespect ourselves, our nation, so that we might respect Islam. This is dhimmitude. We should be raging. We should be outraged. We should be strategizing for this worldwide conflict. We should be debating about which leader will best handle Islam's war on the West. And yet we have not one leader who begins to understand the conflict -- that's how feared the subject matter is. Not one leader.

Recently there was an interesting debate at National Review Online between soft conservatives who soft-pedal Islam and those who stand for reality of Islamic doctrine, conservative principles and the essential truth. By and large, the conservatives have dropped the ball on Islamic jihad. This has been made painfully clear by the lack of a leader (any leader) on the right who speaks to and takes up the fight against the sweeping Islamization of America. America has no Geert Wilders.

The conservatives are not really as bad as the Left is on Islam, but they only get real when there is jihadi "intervention" that invades and destroys the delusion of their narrative.

It is interesting to me that the hierarchy of the conservative movement (take CPAC, for example) stays far away from the counter-jihad forces (i.e., Robert Spencer, Andrew Bostom, myself) except at moments like these. Last year there was not one speaker, one event at CPAC that spoke to the greatest threat this nation faces -- which is why I staged the Geert Wilders event at the Omni Hotel, during CPAC (but not a CPAC event) last year. 

When the reality of war, Islamic doctrine and bloodshed lays bare the nature of the enemy and the battle we are in, the door creaks open and Robert Spencer starts getting invited to appear on radio shows, and NRO finally runs pieces by Bostom and Spencer that show up the soft conservative narrative on Islam, which is soft and fuzzy and stupid (i.e., "Islamist" vs "Islamic"). Of course, we bad boys will be put back in our boxes until the next terrible time the jihad comes calling.

It pains me to say it, but expect to see us more frequently in the coming months and years. For the giant con job on the American psyche continues apace: He was a crazy! It was "vicarious" Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder! It was "Pre-Traumatic" Stress Disorder! It was radical extremism! It was part of a tiny fringe! It doesn't represent Islam!

All lies. He was devout. He was a jihadist. Period. And many Muslims admire what he did. The Left worries about Muslim backlash. How about Muslim backlash against the infidels? Every "Soldier of Allah" who goes jihad is an enemy combatant. Every devout Muslim who believes in the word of the Quran has his or her duty to Islam, his call to jihad. Hence this terrible act of war, the 14,363 Islamic attacks across the world since 911, and all of the relentless plots, plans and to take down America in the past month alone. Devout Muslims should be prohibited from military service. Would Patton have recruited Nazis into his army?

Comments

[Sarastro]

Pamela, you said it exquisitely and succinctly, no one could have formulated the situation better. You, and your entourage, understand the dire desperation we have been drawn into, why cannot others who are still allowed to read the English lamguage not grasp the situation? The crying need is for a leader, a Churchill, an American Geert Wilders, someone who is willing to put his life, his fortune and his sacred honor on the line to fight this hideous hydra that is destroying our country, day by day, inch by inch. We need a great, fearless, straight-thinking person to form a NEW POLITICAL PARTY composed of patriots and people educated before our universities were taken over by the fascists and communists and those blinded by the backward system of subjugation thriving in the desert of 6th century Arabia, that has never progressed and wants to crush all that's been achieved over the centuries by free-thinking men, who have given their thoughts to the public domain for the benefit of all people everywhere.
To think that it was Jefferson who founded the Democratic Party --- and look what it has sunk down to, those who oppose his principles and seek to destroy everything he built and contributed to uplift mankind.
Throw out the Democrats, throw out the Republicans too, they are aenemic
panty-waists without any will-power or conviction of their sacred purpose. So, we need a new party, it could be called the Jeffersonians, or the Liberty-lovers or Freedomites --- whatever, and this leader must be one of the people, he need not be a politician or a lawyer or have any experience in government --- the president only needs to be a native-born American, have lived in America 14 years before taking office and be at least 40 years old --- those were the only stipulations
our Founding Fathers thought necessary for this proud office.

[Sarastro]

I'm sick of all these right-wing commentators who just go on commentating every day but do nothing. We're going to have to get out into the field, it's going to come to more than a conflict of words --- then so be it. We will do whatever necessary to combat and expel the tyranny that is treading on us more and more every day. I still cannot believe that our government did not long ago take up arms against a sect of people --- Moslems--- who say outright they want to kill us, whose lord and master told them they have the right to kill those who do not believe as they believe. Any law agrees that one has a right to self-defence against someone who declares his aim of killing him, but we say "okay, you can kill me and I won't try to stop you, it's alright if you want to kill me, I understand you're only doing it because of your religious beliefs".
Every mosque in this country must be closed and dismantled, or turned into a discotecque or kindergarten for Christian children. America has freedom of religion, but only for Buddhists, Hindus, Shintoists, Confusianists, Baha'i, and all the others that are genuine religions and contribute to the American dream. But Islam is not a religion, it is a political system, like Fascism or Communism, and so cannot be allowed in this country. All practicing Moslems must leave and go to live in an Islamistic country. Those who want to stay in America will have to become baptised, or atheistic, anything but not Islamic. All our great institutions of learning must be purged of the traitorous Communistic Alinskyites that have for some reason which I don't understand been hired to teach in these hallowed halls. Get the vermin out of the power and put the sensible, patriotic ones in their place. It must be made a law that the Pledge of Allegiance MUST be said in every school before the lessons begin. Where is our leader? Isn't there even one in this country, from sea to shining sea?

[on2u]

Canadian border guards nab Syrian with $800K in gold

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-columbia/story/2009/11/11/bc-syrian-arrested-border-gold.html

[Sarastro]

Every day I'm expecting Obama to declare that the Statue of Liberty must be removed because it offends Moslems. Saul Alinsky was born in New York City, as a boy he must have seen this Lady with the Lamp every day.Did its meaning have no effect on him? He taught American students to love murderers like Che Guevara, Fidel Castro and other destroyers of civil-ization, and to disparage those who build civilization up. Of course, the poverty-stricken masses in South American countries must be lifted up to a better position in the world, but this is not done by Socialism. There has never been a Socialist country that has been successful because it consists of a tyrant, or a committee of tyrants, and millions of miserable disenfranchised slaves --- the proof of this is the celebration of the fall of the Berlin wall --- the people imprisoned behind this wall were crying --- grown men were crying --- as they came through into freedom, they were yelling "Freiheit, Freiheit, endlich Freiheit" [freedom, freedom, at last freedom]. Of course, Obama refused to accept Angela Merkel's invitation to take part in this celebration as it was a celebration of what he opposes.

[Sarastro]

It is a policy of Islam and all totalitarian systems to use and mis-use words and ideas of democracies, to twist them around to suit their point of view. Thus, the totalitarian regime of East Germany [DDR] was Deutsche Demokratic Republik --- whereby it was neither democratic nor a republic.
The same with China, which calls itself People's Republic of China. The people have nothing to say in this country. On our dollar bill are the words Novus Ordo Seclorum --- new world order. These are the words of Sir Francis Bacon, and they described the new kind of country he helped to bring about in America, a world without kings and with the importance of the individual. This phrase has been hi-jacked and has come to mean something Islamic, or Communistic --- the kind of world Obama wants to bring to our country, In fact, the more I read, the more I realize how these sinister powers hi-jack so many of our concepts and twist them around or distort the meanings --- Islam is not capable of creating its own ideas, it has always, from the beginning, only overtaken what other people have created and either destroyed it, as in Persia, or as in America, stealthily insinuating itself into the long-cherished institutions and way of life of lucky Americans, who have lived for more than two hundred years with rights and priveleges no other people in the world have ever enjoyed. Maybe this threat has come to make us aware of our good fortune, that we had begun to take for granted. Jeffereson said that Freedom had to be protected --- it needed eternal vigilance, he knew that tyrants would appear to try to take freedom away from us, and though all possible foresights were written into the Constitution, just one lapse in vigilance is enough to bring us to the edge of disaster --- I mean the ones whose duty it was to make sure the candidate for president fulfilled the requirements --- they did not do their duty, and for me are the worst of traitors. These men must be hanged, what are their names?

[Sarastro]

Just to mention another distortion of Islam's efforts to horn in on Western ideas: The darling OIC has now thought of something called Islamic Human Rights --- this is an impossibility, Moslems have no human rights Osama bin Laden said and I quote: "The concept of Human Rights is not Islamic." So why is the OIC trying to make the world think that such a democratic concept could in any way be associated with Islam?

[on2u]

Anyone else notice that the timing of the Fort Hood attack coincides with the announcement of the DC Shooter (radical muslim jihader) execution date?

You can't ignore the role of radical Islam - Dressed to Kill

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Somnia/2204684/story.html

[Sarastro]

Chavez is president of Venezuela. This country has many problems with poverty and crime. Chavez promised the people he would bring hope and change, and they voted him in. He has brought Bill Ayres there many times over the last several years, and now has entrusted him to take over the education system in Venezuela. Oh my God. Think of that!!! The students are protesting against it, but you can expect waves of brain-washed Communists, who have learned nothing useful as far as a career goes, in the future. BUT --- there is something wonderful going on in this country, it's called El Sistema, and it brings music to the poorest children, who learn to play an instrument, starting at the age of two, and are eventually formed into orchestras. The music teachers are very carefully trained, the children are taught not only rhythm and proficiency with an instrument, but aesthetic values and just playing in an orchestra necessarily promotes democracy, all members playing their part, working together for a common goal --- a perfect performance of Beethoven or Mozart, or a South American composer. They are dressed well, and fed in a cantina, but not rigidly, the children are disciplined but can do what they want as long as they obey the rules. The parents are thrilled when their child is accepted, for they know he will not be caught up in a gang or get into trouble. Some children who were in trouble with th law have been accepted and changed through the music. One of thewe is a bassist, who now is a regular member of the Berlin Philharmonic inder sir Simon Rattle, who is a sponsor of this Venezuelan enterprise, as well as Zubin Mehta, both of whom go to Venezuela to conduct. This Sistems has been going on now for more than 20 years and spectacular results have been achieved.
Look it up in the Internet. The children can also learn to be conductors and the most famous is Gustavo Dudamel, who began at 12 and soon was conducting big concerts in his teens, went on to conquer Europe and now is the Chief Conductor of the Los Angeles Philhamonic Orchestra. He is senational, for me he is an atatar, a god who's become a human. It's impossible to get tickets for his concerts. Two summers ago, I heard a concert conducted by him in Salzburg with a huge orchesta of Venezualans there were 15 basses, and probably 40 cellos and a hundred violinists, they played Moussorgsky's Pictures at an Exhibition and Beethoven's Triple Concerto, never have I had an experience like that, it was magical, indescribable, unforgettable, the audience was transported, standing and jumping up and down and screaming and the orchestra was forced to give about 10 encores, one more delicious than the other, with some South American compositions --- I have been a concert-goer for many years, but never did I experience anything like this --- this was Seventh Heaven par excellence. Some hollywood stars and important people came to Dudamel's opening concert in Los Angeles, everywhere he goes he creates beauty, perfection and uplifts thousands of people. Now hw has founded YOLA [Youth Orchestra of Los Angeles] where the same principles will be applied as in Venezuela. This is the way ti fight poverty and ignorance, by offering something concrete and uplifting, something worthy of the human being, not socialism.

[Sarastro]

The man who had the original idea is Jose Abreu. What this man has achieved is unbelievable, monumental. His dream is that in in every little town there will be a choir and an orchestra, at the moment there are 500,000 children involved and soon he hopes to have a million and in a few years, 5 million. This is the way to combat poverty and ignorance. It just shows what one man can do. He started in one little room with a few children, and learned as he went along. Have a look at the video, where he speaks about this project, it will bring tears to your eyes, as it did to mine. He mentions philosophers, he's a highly educated person, which I'm sure Chavez is not. One creates beauty and self-respect and correct behaviour and indivuality, the other bands all people together into a lump and forces them to all be mediocre robots. In Socialism there is no excellence, one can not be more outstanding than another, everyone must be mediocre.
I'd like to ask you all to make a list of persons who just singly made a difference in the history of the world. Sometimes I feel so insignificant, I'm nobody, so what can I do? But sometimes just one person did make a difference.
Gandhi
Mother Teresa
Jose Abreu
George Washington
Martin Luther
?
?
?

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Sarastro you have several posts so here goes. I'm ignoring the one at 3:32AM because while I don't agree totally it's a well thought out and reasoned argument.

3:57 AM: You enumerate almost every recognized religion except Judaism. Is that included under "all others" or does it not count?

4:17 AM you say Alinsky must have seen the Statue of Liberty every day. Why would you think such an absurd thing? NYC is a huge place and the SoL is relatively small. Not even as tall as the Empire State Building. Furthermore, it is much closer to the NJ shore than to NY's.

4:47AM I agree with what you wrote.

5:14AM There are no coincidences.

6:06 AM Why are you defending Chavez and Maritn Luther two of the vilest Anti-semites ever to wak the face of the Earth. The latter's views on G-d's Chosen People were used by the NAZIs, y"s, to justify what they did and the former, is following his German mentors in declaring that Venezuela must become Judenrein. There has been a beautiful and flourishing Jewish community, descendents Jews who fled Spain in 1498 and later on those who fled the Germans in Caracas. This is what this lover of Mozart, who was himself a Freemason, wants to destroy. I'm sorry Abreu was suckered into being his tool.

Your enthusiasm for the Beast of South America is equal in despicableness to what maidenUSofA wrote about Kemal Ataturk a few days ago.

Here's a partial list (Wikipedia) of those the Beast would expel or worse:

Main articles: List of Venezuelan Jews and History of the Jews in Venezuela
Moisés Naím, magazine editor
Ricardo Hausmann, professor, academic
Amador Bendayán, actor, comedian
Ilan Chester, composer
Karina, pop singer
Manuel Blum, computer scientist, Turing Award (1995)
Andres Levin, keyboardist in Yerba Buena
Moisés Kaufman, screenwriter, director, founder of NY's Tectonic Theater Project
Reynaldo Hahn, composer (Jewish father)
Baruj Benacerraf, immunologist, Nobel prize (1980)
Teodoro Petkoff, ex-guerrilla, journalist and economist (Jewish mother)
Ivan Lansberg Henriquez, noted businessman (insurance), university professor and humanist.
Isaac Chocron, playwright.
Gonzalo Benaím Pinto, physician.
Jacqueline Goldberg, poet and editor
Enrique Capriles Radonsky, former Baruta Municipality Mayor and current Miranda State Governor

[James]

Liberals are WILLFULLY ignoring and WHITEWASHING the truth about Islam. They do not want the truth to come out and so they are actively, (desperately) trying to supress the truth about Islam.

There exists what David Horowitz calls an "unholy alliance" between the far left and Radical Islam. They have a common enemy e.g.,Capitalism and freedom. They both want a monolithic, totalitarian government to control everything and so they have literally joined forces and are actively and seditiously co-signing each others bullshit. I truly wish this was just paranoia. I wish it was just another conspiracy theory. Sadly it's very real.

To better understand this "unholy alliance" I suggest you read the David Horowitz book entitled Unholy Alliance.

[graysheepdog]

I think Obamba tied his own hands on this one. Willingly.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/200910166872/global-terrorism/obamas-resolution-to-stiufle-free-speech-on-islam.html

[duh_swami]

I registered to comment on American Thinker...I commented...It didn't appear...I re-posted and got the message that duplicate posts are not allowed...I give up...Maybe it takes an hour or so to appear...I'll check back later...

My post was directed at someone called Crusader...It won't post there so I will post it here...In defense of Spencer...

From Crusader...Spencer? Spencer?!? Haha! I got banned from his site for advocating the destruction of islam. He is a "soft on islam" conservative as well.

Uh huh...Spencer is constantly under attack...The enemies of freedom blame him for people like you, who advocate the destruction of Islam, probably by violent means...Because of this, violent threats or opinions, like 'nuke Mecca', or 'kill all Muslims' etc, are deleted...If you get 'banned', it was your own doing...Spencer's work is far more important than your opinions...Your faulty opinion of him is helping the Islamic enemies of freedom...

[Lenin-McCarthy]

What is it going to take to defeat radical islam in North America? I would hate to suggest to form partisan groups to defeat it. What other choices do we have when our governments are not listening? During WW-2, many Jews in nazi occupied countries formed partisans to resist the monsters. Oh G_d, I hope it doesn't come to this.

[duh_swami]

From post above...What is it going to take to defeat radical islam in North America?

'Radical' Islam does not exist...There are basically two types of Muslims...Muslims in name only, and pious Muslims...MINO's are closet apostates and are not radicalized...Few of them are jihadists...Pious Muslims on the other hand are not closet apostates, they are mainstream Islam...Pious Muslims are the pool of jihadists...
'Radical' is a distraction...Take the word 'radical' out of your equation and your question is a good one...

[Lenin-McCarthy]

What is it going to take to islaminization of North America? I would hate to suggest to form partisan groups to defeat it. What other choices do we have when our governments are not listening? During WW-2, many Jews in nazi occupied countries formed partisans to resist the monsters. Oh G_d, I hope it doesn't come to this.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Duh swami, done!

[Sarastro]

Dear Meira, there must be some dreadful misunderstanding, I loathe and dispise Chavez and everything he stands for. I am a member of Keren-Hayesod and I work every day for Israel, I love the Jewish people and have often visited Israel. Abreu is the counter weight to Chavez, they are opposites. When I said he had brought in Ayers as his minister of education, that is horrifying. I wish for the overthrow of Chavez. I fear he will cut off the financial support El Sistema needs to continue to do its good work. That I left out Judaism in my list of genuine religions was just a big oversight. Early America was actually populated by reincarnated Israelites, it is claimed, and the early settlers were extremely friendly to Jews. I don't know who you mean is a Freemason, Abreu certainly could be as he has all the qualities, and he might be Jewish, I don't know. Your meaning is not clear, i cannot believe Chavez could be a Freemason. Please do not demean Freemasons, If it had not been for them, there would have not been a United States of America. Freemasons have always been there to fight for the cause of liberty. Some examples:
Simon Bolivar, South American liberator who founded Bolivia
Dom Pedro de Alcantara, who declared Brazil independent from Brazil
Garibaldi and Mazzini, liberators and unifiers of Italy
Kerensky, who established a democracy with a parliament in Russia
after the Revolution, which Lenin demolioshed
Tallyrand, John Paul Marat and other French revolutionists
Washington, Franklin, Hancock, La Fayette, all but five signers of the
Declaration and most of the signers of the Constitution
Ataturk, who was not only a Mason but Jewish as well, and brought
Turkey out from the grip of islam as far as he could
Madison, Buchanon, Ford, Garfield, Harding, Andrew Jackson, Andrew
Johnson, Lyndon Johnson, McKinley, Monroe, Polk, Theodore
Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, Taft, and Truman.

[Jokerman]

Meira, why are you so antagonistic and belligerent all the time?

It is a very bad trait and shows lack of character.

You imply that Sarastro is "absurd" because of the Alinsky-Statue of Liberty comment. It's not absurd at all. I was born and raised in Manhattan and saw the statue every day that I had track practice in Riverside Park, for example, or from the rooftops my friends and I hung out on. Sure it was small, but we could see it nevertheless.

Regardless, seeing it or not, doesn't make Sarasto's point any less valid. He is lamenting the disregard Alinsky had for Liberty! Surely, you're bright enough to recognize that point, no?

Next, Miss Accurate, Sarastro posted nothing at 5:14 AM. That was someone else.

Third, re-read what Sarastro wrote. He not only is NOT defending Chavez, he slams him for what he has done and is doing to that country.

You also continue your antagonism in taking a gratuitous swipe above at MaidenUSA. I thought your hatred of her was over.

You truly need to realize that we are not your enemies here at Atlas. Your constant name calling and belligerence is getting old. Go post your hatred on pro-muslim sites where they belong. Redirect your anger toward those who would kill you without batting an eye.

As Bob Dylan, another fantastic Jew, wrote: "If you cannot bring good news, Then don't bring any."

Or as I would put it: If you can't speak kindly here, then Shut Up!

[Sarastro]

Meira, please re-read my words, you have misunderstood. Freemasonry is respected among Jews, as I rode around in Haifa, I saw a building with Masonic Temple written on it. Irving Berlin was a Mason, Eddie Cantor,
Marc Chagall, George M. Cohan, I don't have a list to hand, but even Rabin may have been a Mason.
The early Americans saw a striking simiularity between their own hardships, history and condition, and those of the children of Israel under Moses and Joshua. They baptised their children with the names of the Hebrew profits and patriarchs and likened their condition to "Egyptian bondage", King James to Pharaoh, the ocean whose dangers their ancestors had encountered to the Red sea, and their new home in the American wilds to "the wilderness". Washington and Adams were often referred to as Moses and Joshua.
The Bible was more than a religious guide to the early New England settlers; it was their polkitical textbook as well. The early criminal codes of the Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay colonies were modeled on rules found in Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy, plus Anglo-Saxon common law.
By 1776 it was widely accepted that God had established a new American i
Israel. This idea was preached to approving congregations in sermons with titles such as "The Republic of the Israelites: An Example to the American States" and "Traits of Resemblance in the People of the United states of America to Ancient Israel". The idea was so deeply rooted that the first design proposed for the Great Seal depicted Pharoah sitting in an open chariot, passing through the divided waters of the Red Sea in hot pursuit of the children of Israel. Rays from a pillar of fire shone on Moses as he raised his hand over the sea causing it to overwhelm the Egyptians.
I

[Timur]

Ask the 13 men and women who died if the man shooting at them, yelling "allah hu akbar" was a terrorist or not. Ask their families. I see the Lame Stream Media has not interviewed any of the relatives of the victims and they probably never will. Why not ? Afraid of hearing the truth? Might be too politically inconvenient for Barry's administration.

[Richard]

There was a post here yesterday that was gathering a lot of great comments, about 50 of them last time I saw, that for some reason Pamela deleted. We were discussing in those comments what type of action we could take beyond commenting on blogs; I suggested pamphleting. Well today I have made about 70 (so far, it's early) two-sided copies of the "Islam in 2pages" document that DeeDee linked and I plan on strategically placing them where people will unexpectedly find them this weekend. Some will say, or have said, that pamphleting does not answer the call to action but I say doing it is better than not doing it.

I will leave some with the forms in the post office, interleaved with stacks of free-for-the-taking tabloid newspapers, among the fliers that realtors place on the "For Sale" sign posts in the front yards of homes on the market. There are a few stacks of fliers for various events on a table by the entrance to my favorite shooting range, that's a good place too.

As far as the suggestion to buy up as much ammo as one can afford, well, UPS is bringing me 600 rounds of S&B 9mm FMJ today from Cabela's. And that's for my new Browning Hi-Power. A really sweet 1976 Belgian pistol with adjustable sights that I just bought in 99% mint condition for about a mortgage payment.

We're under seige - game on, Muzzies!

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Sarastro, I think that's what must have happened. I was having a very bad eye day and may have missed whole sentences. I glanced over your comments about Freemasons. We will agree to disagree on that although I know many fine people who were Freemasons who were unawares of what they were dealing with. Rabin definitely was one and so is Peres. Their beliefs on the highest levels, however, are contrary to and forbidden by Orthodox Judaism. The literature tying them, even my beloved Garibaldi to the Illuminati is compelling and available. As for Rabin, he was a traitor to my country and I for one am not sad.
I will try to read more carefully, perhaps print it all out and then respond properly.

Jokerman, I will re-ead Sarastro's Chavez comment. 5:14 AM yes it was "on2u," but my response stands. Apologies. If you KNEW it was a misread why didn't you just say so? Why are YOU so antagonistic?

I really was a mess with my eyes today and while I am normally healthy, this is an issue and it is scary and it makes me cranky. I'm not always sweetness and light but I guess if I got myself a blog, I could be as antagonistic and belligerent as I wish and my character wouldn't be assailed by my "allies." Haven't many people characterized Pam the same way, even those who agree with her?

[Pamela Geller]

I deleted nothing.

Nuts.

[Richard]

Not those who agree with her, she is consistent.

[www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1591477762]

To clarify I am not sad about what happened to Rabin. I am indeed grieved he betrayed us.

Sarastro, I printed your original post about Chavez and your comments following. I promise I will read, if not tomorrow then after the Sabbath and will post my reply by Sunday. Remember we are 7 hours ahead of NY. Shabbat comes early this time of year and I don't have much time on Fridays.
Meira

[Blanco]

OT, a bit, but what in the samhill is up with Mayor Bloomberg? This just in on Fox News.com:

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg welcomed to City Hall an "unindicted co-conspirator" in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, later claiming he didn't know the radical Muslim cleric had been invited, the New York Post reported.

Siraj Wahhaj has called the FBI and CIA the "real terrorists," defended the convicted World Trade Center attack plotters and said his hope is that all Americans will become Muslim

[Jokerman]

Meira, I'm just tired of your belligerence and constant name-calling. When we're respectful to each other here, we can expect respect in return. . . kinda just like life.

When you say things like "agree to disagree" THAT'S the Meira I enjoy reading, as you are obviously very bright and knowledgeable about so much. That kind of animosity towards your "allies" is really beneath you.

But, when you or others, act hateful, I'll call you out on it.

Richard, I believe the posts you are referring to were the ones under Pamela's FIRST post here on 11/11 called "It is not Political Correctness. . . It is Shariah" That's where all the talk of 'what can we do' was taking place. It's still up!

I also like your suggestion of "pamphleteering". Wish I'd thought of it! It is what the revolutionaries did at the beginning of this nation to spread truth and gain support.

I have always maintained that the islamic threat was an awareness issue, and this is a great means of raising awareness. I will find DeeDee's link and use those printouts as well as write my own pamphlets.

Also, you can build your own AR-15s, if your state doesn't allow the purchase of them. All you have to do is legally buy the firing mechanism through a gun dealer, (background check for it etc., but completely legal in most states).

Then the stock, barrel, other components, can be purchased online. You can assemble these for around $600 total, which is way cheaper than trying to buy them outright.

Pamphlets first, though.

[Sarastro]

Meira, you are misguided by your conception of Freemasonry. It has been much maligned by the Catholic Church and others who do not understand its principles. The only requirement necessary to become a Freemason is that you have to believe in a "Higher Being", regardless of the name. That's why two kings of Hawaii were Masons, Joseph Brant -- Chief of the Mohawks, Shakespeare, Goethe, Liszt, Haydn, Mozart and Jan Sibelius, Sam Houston, Jim Bowie, Davy Crockett and all the rest of the defenders of the Alamo, the generals George Marshall, Douglas MacArthur, Omar Bradley, and Mark Clark, Lord Nelson, Churchill, Burke, Wm. Pitt, Charles Lindbergh, Paul Revere, Voltaire, Oscar Wilde, the entire Royal Society of British scientists, including Boyle and Newton --- the list is endless, and when a men does something to pull mankind forward, you can bet he was probably a Mason. I would bet my bottom dollar that Michelletti, the saviour of Honduras, is a Mason.

W. L. Wilmshurst, author of The Meaning of Masonry, points out that Masonry offers "a philosophy of the spiritual life of man and a diagram of the process of regeneration." This philosophy is symbolically embodied in three degrees, or steps of initiation. From grade to grade the candidate is being led from an old to an entirely new quality of life. He begins his Masonic career as the natural man; he ends it by becoming through its discipline, a regenerated, perfected man. He rises from the dead a Master, a just man made perfect, with larger consciousness and faculties, an efficient instrument for use by the Great Architect in His plan of rebuilding the Temple of fallen humanity, and capable of initiating and advancing other men to a participation in the same great work.
The real purpose of modern Masonry is not the social and charitable works to which so much attention is paid, but the expediting of the spititual evolution of those who aspire to perfect their own nature and transform it into a more god-like quality. The challenge of Masonry is to reborn "incorruptible" which must be preceded by the death of the lower nature. The intention of of Masonry is not the building of a temple, but the greater science of soul building.
It was Sir Francis Bacon who first established Masonry in England. It quickly spread to Scotland and Ireland, then to America and Europe, first to Holland and France, then Germany and the rest of Europe and the world.
Washington was the Master Mason, in fact he was the master of Masters. He took his Masonry very seriously. I am in the middle of writing an essay about the crucial importance of Freemasonry in the establishment of our country. There were field lodges throughout both the English and American armies. Freemasonry at this time and place was an ambience, a mentality, a hierarchy of attitudes and values and a repository for an imaginatively stirring and potent idealism which it was able to disseminate through the field lodges. Most colonists did not actualy read Locke, Hume, Voltaire, Diderot or Rousseau any more than the British soldiers did, but through the lodges the currents of thought associated with such philosophers became universally accessible, and it was through the lodges that ordinary colonists learned of that lofty premise called "the Rights of Man".

[Jokerman]

Wow! DeeDee, thank you for the link to the 2page illumination of islam. And thank you Richard for the reminder. What a great read. It is like Robert Spencer's "Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran" in miniature.

I'll repeat DeeDee's link here: http://tinyurl.com/2yccjt which redirects you to this site: http://ddata.over-blog.com/xxxyyy/1/21/56/11/all_islam_in_2_pages.pdf

But it is great material and can be placed in laundromats, restaurants, waiting rooms, hotels, apartment and office building lobbies, etc., etc. Think Jehovah's Witnesses!

I really like this idea!

[Mike_W]

"Every mosque in this country must be closed and dismantled, or turned into a discotecque or kindergarten for Christian children."

- posted above

Nope.
Every mosque in every Western country must be closed and razed to the ground, the earth salted, and that cursed ground left vacant for a thousand years.
And every Muslim directed to their lords and masters, the Arabs who founded the filthy cult of Islam, and Mecca.
Let the Arabs look after their murderous ideological spawn.

[Sarastro]

Thomas Jefferson expressed his regrets to a prominent Jew, Joseph Marx, that "the Jewish people, parent and basis of all those in Christendom, should have been in the past singled out for a persecution and oppression which proved they have profited nothing from the benevolent doctrines of him whom they profess to make the model of their principles and practice."

Pastor Scott Thomas of CUFI delivered a powerful speech on Jan. 11th, 2009 in which he said:
The Constitution of the United States was signed on Sept. 17, 1787 and immediately became the established framework of our newly formed American government. History records that less than one year after the signing, Francis Hopkinson, a Philadelphia-born judge, poet and co-signer of the Declaration of Independence, conceived and proposed the concept of hosting a parade in celebretion of this newly established Constitution.
So it was, on July 4, 1788 at 9:30 AM that some 5,000 people gathered in a musical procession as the parade commenced in the city of Philadelphia. In his many memoirs recounting this celebration, Hopkinson wrote the following as one of the most outstanding sights of that day:
"The clergy of the different denominations, with the Rabbi of the Jews, walked arm in arm, united in charity and brotherly love."

The Pilgrims and the Puritans felt a connection with the Jewish people, but they did not like Catholics, as what they were escsaping from were the remnants of Catholicism still remaining in the English Church. They wanted to read their Bibles without any interference from priests or government officials. This was Jefferson's attitude,too. There were no Catholics in New England while America was being founded.

[Timur]

The problem with Freemasonry is, as you said Sarastro, that it will admit anyone who believes in "a higher power". ANY "higher power". If Satan is your god, then he is your "higher power". If your god is Allah, Krishna, a tree, a lizard, Zeus, Aphrodite, Bacchus, or even if you believe you are god, that's just peachy keen with the Masons. Masons seem to think that just as "all roads lead to Rome", all religions lead to God. They are wrong. There is only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There are many false gods. Masonry does not differentiate between them but allows any religious book to be placed on the altars and of their blue lodges. (And when is an altar not connected to religion?) Also Masons (and Shriners - every Shriner is a 33rd Degree Mason) do not allow any women to be part of their organization. They have a separate organization for them, the eastern Star, whose emblem is a pentagram. Young girls can be part of Job's daughters or Rainbow girls and young men can join Demolay, another Masonic organization. Black Masons have their own branch of Masonry, Prince Hall Masons.

[Sarastro]

And just a word to Martin Luther: he had been educated in the Catholic Church of his day, was a priest, and brain-washed with Catholic dogma. He was intolerant to the Jews. That is regretable, but understandable under the circumstances. But he did liberate the non-Jewish population from the stranglehold of the Roman Church, translated the Bible into German, which was a direct influence on happenings in England, where a man named Tyndale translated the Bible into English. He came to Hamburg where he met Luther, who allowed him to use his Greek translations. Then he went to Geneva, where he had the Bible printed in English, and about 18,000 copies were smuggled into England. Henry VIII said anybody caught distributing the Bible in any language except Latin would be burned at the stake. Tyndale went into hiding in Belgium, but was betrayed and burned at the stake there in 1536. But I am certain that some copies of the Tyndale Bible found their way into the hands of our Pilgrims and Puritans and they realized they didn't need a priest any more and could read the word of god for themselves.
Jan Hus, also a religious reformer from Bohemia, was called to a hearing before some ecclesiastics and given a safe conduct pass by the emperor. He was challenged as to his beliefs, convicted of heresy and burned at the stake despite the safe-conduct guarantee, in 1415.
Luther was also called to such a hearing, where the emperor was also present, and challenged about his beliefs. The crimes of the Roman Church were so many and so unbearable [if you gave the Church enough money you could buy your way out of hell, etc] that Luther's conscience would not let him recant. He would have suffered the same fate as Jan Hus if Fredrick the Wise, Ruler of Saxony had not kidnapped him and had him taken to the Wartburg Castle where he lived incognito and made his German translation. Although Luther didn't go far enough with his reforming to include the Jews, he did, in a very real sense, prepare the way for the founding of America.
And there was a great German who lived just before Luther named Reuchlin
He was able to get Hebrew taught at some important universities and WAS a very good friend to the Jews. He did not like Luther. But the fact remains, that Luther in the face of a certain horrible death, refused to recant, and stood his ground, alone, against the combined fury and power of the Roman Church, and what he did caused radiations that influenced all of Europe in the cause of religious freedom.

[www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1591477762]

Thanks Jokerman, I probably just need some tutoring on writing on blogs. Although some people have gotten away with the things you say you will call them on. Probably jsut were't on line for those.
Sarastro, I have studied both sides of the Freemasonry story and I really would appreciate it if you would not try to persuade me to your side of it. Timur is correct.
Ditto Luther. Can you appreciate that Jews who have been persecuted by Christians for 2,000 years really don't care about Luther and wish the Catholic church had done it's job regarding his heresy. The fact is the only reason he didn't burn probably is his stand against the Jews. Luther was not "intolerant" of the Jews he felt we were damned for murdering Hesus. But even if that's all he were, you find that merely "regrettable?"
Do you really know what he said should be done to us? He proposed "work camps" outside the towns where Jews were prospering as merchants. He would have turned us back into slaves. As he aged, he actually suggested burning us to save us. He was no model for anyone of morals and character. Luther was an evil man and he is very far from Heaven right now. He did not cause the formation of America he brought about the Rise of the Third Reich. In Hebrew when someone is evil we try not to say his name but when we must we add "yemach shemo, May his name be obliterated." That's is what should have been done with Luther after the Catholics finished with him.

As for you comment about a Rabbi walking arm in arm with clergy of every denomination in Colonial America, it can still be found today. There are "rabbis" who will sit with Imams and discuss their similarities and how to destroy Israel.
Those rabbis don't represent Orthodox Judaism. I'm not into ecumenism, sorry. On that I agree with my "cousins." I've given you my take on Thomas Jefferson.

[Sarastro]

Timur, My father was a Mason, a Shriner and a Knight Templar. So were most of his friends. These men were the salt of the earth. My mother was an Eastern Star. Every well-meaning undertaking can be infiltrated and abused by those whose motives are less than sincere. In Italy, for example, Berlusconi became a Mason, but as his behaviour is contrary to Masonic ideals, he was expelled --- thrown out. However, before a man is allowed to become a Mason, his character is supposed to be vetted, there are talks with him to try to find out his sincerity and motivation, and he has to have sponsors, people who can vouch for his character. And before he is accepted, there is an election and if someone thinks he is not the right caliber, he can be black-balled.

If an unscrupulous man sees that members are affluent and are in positions of influence, he may want to become part of this milieu, not because of spiritual reasons but for personal advantage. Washington was a Mason. So was Benedict Arnold. Thomas Jefferson was not. Paul Revere was. Samuel Adams was not. There is no umbrella criteria. But once a meeting starts, all members are brothers. In Mozart's lodge in Vienna, one of the members was a count, and there was a shoemaker, the rest normal people with ordinary jobs. They were all on the same level during the meetings. Afterwards, back on the street, each one assumes his role again. Freemasonry is not appealing to every man. For some, it is. So be it. But for one thing, the American Revolution could have never happened without the influence of Freemasonry. I am writing about this at the moment and studying it. All the commanders of the British, and also those of the Americans were Masons. The British could have crushed Washington in no time if they had wished, but they never followewd up their victories and let captured Colonists escape or set them free. It's too long a story to get into now.
And why do women have to stick their noses in everywhere? I think it's a good thing for men to have things to do without women always around.
In Germany it's very popular for men to join choruses where they meet and sing and socialize and sometimes give little concerts. I think this is good.

[www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1591477762]

Sarastro, So was Roy Rogers a Shriner. Broke my heart to hear that.

The Lodge is anathema to anyone who is an Orthodox Jew or a Bible believing Christian. What you call progress in human history, I call the death knell of Biblical belief. Voltaire? Yemach shemo! See previous post to understand that.
Sure all this stuff seems good because they intended it to seem so. I once wrote a short article on how Industrialization was pure evil but unfortunately I don't still have a copy.
Maybe I need to dig into the memory banks and try to get the crux of it and rewrite it and lengthen it. When I cam to Israel, I gave up having a car. It was liberating! I do love communications tech, I admit it. But I also worry about its overuse. One of the neat things here is we have "kosher" phones for the ultra religious. NO text, no MP3 and no video. I'm not as uptight as they are about what might come thru my phone but having a kosher phone, which is optional, limits me to actually using it for PHONE calls. If I indulged in an iPHone, I'd be hooked. If I were in America where those things are so darn cheap, I'd indulge.

About two years I was probably scoffing at the idea of "illuminati" conspiracies. I'm not scoffing any more. Founding the SU was a big chunk of that work as was the French Revolution and the consolidation of Nations from conglomerations of city states and duchies in Europe as a first step towards the EU that we have now. Bismarck did it in Germany and Mazzini did it in Italy. At least in Italy it limited the papacy's political power to some degree. It took Mussoliini to finally get the popes confined to the Vatican State and it's 67 acres. Now the German pope says he won't necessarily honor that agreement and comes to Israel demanding we give him our land.
It's all planned and foretold. I'm not worried. Waht's coming down won't be pleasant but I'm promised white garments if I endure. Daniel 12.

[www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1591477762]

Sorry, that should be "US." in the previous post. A car accident a couple of years ago has brought on "dygraphia."
Some minor congnitive issues too.

[Get d'Clu]

I believe the main problem with masonry is that it requires one to make oathes to other powers. Followers of Christ must be unwilling to do that. This is why the NWO is so insidious, because the enemy sneeks in and devours what begins as "social problems", but are really "soul issues", and uses those willing to compromise their principles for what they want at the moment...

That's why we need Conservatives with principles and Principals with values. Let's the GOP and take out every one who doesn't agree to follow the Constitution's limits. At the beginning of the next session there will be a review. If they fail they will be hanged! That's what the Founders meant when they stated their honor, their wealth and their LIVES for LIBERTY. We should require no less.

Pat Robertson has an apropos article today regarding Islamofascism and how America is no longer a melting pot... We are fast becoming an un-nation - undone from within and this trend needs to end now. Other than an eye for an eye violent actions, what are the steps you'd suggest? Please feel free to guest author over at my blog at http://GetdClu.wordpress.com. Shoot me an email and I'll read your article. Thanks!

[Get d'Clu]

Ok, pardon the typo's... That should read:

Let's "ravage" the GOP - takeover the Republican paerty with Conservatives.

BTW - I'm Jewish enough that they'd have come for me, too. Just because my Mother was a shicksa doesn't mean we didn't lose family in Dachau, Auchwitz and Buchenwald. My Dad was in the 82nd AirBorne at 17 and Mom was a WAC.

[Richard]

I deleted nothing.
Nuts.
Posted by: Pamela Geller

Pamela, you are correct. I just didn't look hard enough for it. It was the
"It is not Political Correctness .... it is Shariah"
Post.
My aplologies.

[Timur]

Sarastro, I understand you came from along line of Masons and I'm sure that colors your perceptions of the various Masonic organizations to some "degree", probably the 33rd degree (sorry, couldn't resist). I also understand you would think your father "the salt of the earth". I'm sure he was a good father. Stalin was a Freemason too, wasn't he? And George Washington stopped having anything to do with the Masons for the last 20-some years of his life, calling Masonry "A great foolishness". It was only after his death that Masons badgered his widow into letting them perform Masonic rituals at his funeral. He never actually posed for any of the paintings of him in Masonic regalia. They were painted after his death and are nothing but Masonic propaganda. But I digress.
I find it revealing that you waxed long and eloquent about how any organization can be "infiltrated and abused" rather than address the specific points I made. You completely sidestepped the issues I raised about Freemasonry, Shriners, et al, and the different gods their members worship in their individual religions. I suspect you did so because you know that what I said is true. Perhaps you never stopped to consider the aspects of Freemasonry I've shown here. I could talk about "JOBULUN" being the Mason's "Secret Name Of God" and a composite of Jehovah, Osiris and Baal, the last 2 being pagan gods of Egypt and Babylon respectively, how Hyrum Abiff "lost" it building the Great Pyramid, "Mahabone", how the white apron represents purity of spirit, etc, etc. If you read your bible you will see that "Jehovah" the God of Israel, said He would NEVER mingle His name with any flase idols, etc, so "JOBULUN" should be an abomination to Christians. However those things aren't relevant to this discussion and have already been exposed on other blogs, so I see no need to go into them at length here. No matter how you slice it, regardless how "good" your members are, (the Bible says NO men are "good", we are ALL sinners, which is why Jesus Christ had to die as a sacrifice for our sins) Freemasonry is not a Judeo-Christian organization.
The bottom line is this my friend: If the Bible and the Torah are true then all other religions and all other "gods" are false. If they are correct and Jesus (Yeshua) is the son of the one true living God, you have to decide whether you stand with Him or with the Freemasons who allow the worship of many gods on their altars and in their temples. I know that Masonic temples supposedly contain copies of Solomon's Temple, but in reality, they don't. The Temple in Jerusalem was the only one in the world because it represented the fact that there is only One God. That's why Jews from all over the world came to worship there on the High Holy Days, as when Christ was crucified. The many Masonic Temples ultimately represent the many different Gods the individual Masons worship. In the final analysis Christianity is not about what you have built or done in your life but what Jesus Christ has done for you. Try to substitute a white apron or any garment you make for the salvation of Jesus Christ on judgment day and you will be found to be wearing only "filthy rags"

[Mike_W]

The hide of George W. Bush to show up at Fort Hood and offer condolences.
He should be ashamed of himself.
Incredible.
Bush is directly responsible for this atrocity, by misleading the American people about the nature of Islam.
If the nature and threat of Islam was recognized, this atrocity would never have happened.
Muslims in the military is insanity!
Heck, Muslims anywhere in the civilized West is insanity!

[Sarastro]

Meira, I find it very difficult to understand what you say. I'm not up on the latest "in" jargon. What on earth has Roy Rogers got to do with the subject in question? Illuminati has nothing to do with Freemasonry, this was conjured up by a novelist who was probably a Catholic, trying to swirl up a lot of nonsense. You can be sure George Washington never heard of Illuminati. And what on earth is your problem with Voltaire? One of the most magnificent human beings who ever walked around on two feet, one of my heroes. I don't think you know what you're talking about, you have all your prejudices from ignorant people who do not investigate but only repeat what other people assume. One of my favorite authors is Will Durant, who is Jewish. I love everything he ever wrote, the works about Greece, but most especially The History of Philosophy, in which his writing about Voltaire was eye-opening. I am a francophobe and always avoided Voltaire, but Durant made me realize my
mistake, and now that I know him, I love him. The crimes of the Roman clergy were so monstrous, in Toulouse a Protestant could not get a job doing anything, and one woman was ostracized and heavily foned becaused she used a protestant midwife. A boy of 16 was killed because he had a copy of a book on the Catholic index, etc., etc., etc. The aristocrats could have anybody thrown into the Bastille without cause or trial [Voltaire landed there twice], so please do not sneer at this magnificent person who combatted evil and brought justice. Almost single-handedly, he was ther force behind the French Revolution, which was sorely needed.
Get d'Clu --- Freemasonry does not require anyone to make oaths to "other powers", whatever that may be, and no one was more of a good Christian gentlemen than my dear fathe, Sunday School and Church every Sunday without fail. His Sunday School was called the Peter's Brotherhood Bible Class, and the men would select a verse, read it and then discuss it, what it might mean and how it could be applied, etc.
He was born on a farm, and before the others in this area built their farmhouses and barns, they built their church, of the Lutheran faith. It is still standing, has been renevated and is still used sometimes. When it was built, there was only one preacher who would ride on his horse one Sunday in a month for a service; on the other three Sundays the farmers conducted the services themselves. Before Sunday dinner, some verses from the Bible were read. I cannot understand how you can say a Mason cannot be a Christian. Sir Francis Bacon, who founded Masonry, was a Christian. All the Masons I know are Christians, but there are many Masons who are good moral people who are not Christians.
I don't think anyone should blanketly condemn something they actually know nothing about.

[Sarastro]

What on earth is a NWO?

[Mike_W]

So, this site is a chatroom now for Sarastro and friends?

[Timur]

Sarastro you said "All the Masons I know are Christians"
What does that prove? Hitler was a Roman Catholic but hardly what one would call a "good Christian".
(NWO - New World Order)

[Xavier]

One of the main problems we face today is its been over 20 years since
we have had a real leader in the White House. Do you think Reagan would
have been afraid of saying Muslim Terrorist. Reagan would have clearly
told organizations like CAIR if you don't love our country then get out.
He would never have stood for the Saudis funding anti American Muslim
centers and schools. The CIA and the FBI would have been given the green
light to clean up the anti American Muslims. Think about what Reagan
would of said about General Casey's disgraceful speech after a Muslim
terrorist killed 13 of his men.We have been void of leadership for a
long time now.

[Sarastro]

Timur --- I think you have escaped from an insane asylum. Stalin was NEVER a Mason,[Pushkin was], and Hitler was Never a Catholic [his father was Jewish]. When I said "all Masons I know are Christians", I said that to disprove your claim that a Mason could not be a Christian. I know plenty who are both. When I said that institutions could be twisted around to distort their original purpose, I was specifically thinking about the UN, which when it was created was intended to do a lot of good in the world but its purpose was distorted when it was hi-jacked by the Moslems. Now the UN is infamous.
Your opinion of Masonry and what it entails sounds like something you read in a MAD comic book and has nothing to do with the truth and the facts. What you think you know was never told to you by Mason.
And what you said about Washington is just one GREAT BIG LIE, and makes me doubt everything else you say.You should learn some scientific methods, or take some lessons from Pamela on how to be an investigative reporter.
Now listen to this truth, which I am taking from my accredited book:

On 18 September 1793, the cornerstone of the Capitol was officially laid. Grand Lodge of Maryland presided over the ceremony and Washington was asked to serve as Master. The affiliated lodges under Maryland's jurisdiction were in attendance, as was Washington's own lodge from Alexandria, Virginia. There was a great procession, which included a company of artillary. Then came a band, followed by Washington himself, attended by all officers and members of the lodges in full regalia.
When he reached the trench in which the south-east cornerstone was laid, Washington was presented with a silver plate commemmorating the event and inscribed with the designations of the lodges in attendance. The artillery fired a volley. Washington then descended into the trench and placed the plate on the stone. Around it, he placed containers of corn, wine and oil --- standard symbolic accoutrements of Freemasonic ritual. All present joined in prayer and Masonic chanting, and the artillery fired another volley.
Washington and his entourage then moved to the east of the cornerstone, where the president, standing on a traditionally Masonic three-stepped rostrum, delivered an oration. MOre Masonic chanting followed, and a final volley from the artillery.
The gavel, the silver trowel, the square and the level used by Washington for the ceremony are today held by Potomac Lodge No 5 of the District of Columbia. The apron and the sash he wore are held by his own lodge, Alexandria No. 22.
Subsequently, the Capitol and the White House were each to become focal points of an eleborate geometry governing the layout of the nation's capitol city. This geometry, originally devised by an architect named Pierre L'Enfant, was later modified by Washington and Jefferson so as to produce specifically octagonal patterns incorporating the particular cross used as a device by Masonic Templars.
Six years and three months later, in December 1799, Washington died. He was buried at Mount Vernon, with full masonic honors, by Alexandria Lodge No 22, whose members were his pallbearers.

This does not sound to me as if Washington had lost interest in Masonry.

Your concept of Christianity does not exactly coincide with mine. I do not believe we were born in sin and are not good --- that's Catholic nonsense. I won't get into this, but you can be sure I have done a lot of reading in a lot of books, ones that you never heard of.

I just want to quote in closing something St. Augustine said:

That which is called the Christian Religion existed among the ancients
AND NEVER DID NOT EXIST, from the beginning of the human race until Christ came in the flesh, at which time the true religion, which already existed, began to be called Christianity.

You have noticed that my name is taken from The Magic Flute by Mozart. Sarastro represents the Enlightenment, the new light of freedom that is coming into the world, as contrasted with the Queen of the Night, who
represents the Catholic Church. This is Masonic.

And so I say blessings to you and amen. This discussion is closed.

[Timur]

Sarastro (und yah Ich verstehen Die Zauberflöte) you are not a moderator, you have no authority or power over anyone here and the discussion is far from "closed" just because you say so. Maybe in your masonic circles you are somebody of some small importance, but here you are no different than the rest of us. Unless you are being completely disingenuous in your attempts to discredit me you need to reread what I said. Google Hitler's baptism for yourself. He was baptized a Catholic, the religion of his mother. So much for your "learning", "education" and "intelligence". I DID NOT claim that Masons could not be Christians - you are twisting my words. I said Freemasonry is not a Christian organization - meaning it does not elevate or promote Christianity over other religions as a Christian should, but that it equates all religions as the same - in Masonry it doesn't matter WHAT "god" a member believes in as long as he believes in some "higher power", making Allah, Buddah, Satan, Krishna, et al, equal with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. A Masonic altar can have a Bible, Book or Mormon, Koran, Tao Te Ching, or any religious text on it. That is blasphemy. The bible plainly says "There is (only) One God and (only) One mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5). Freemasonry's beliefs contradict that, thereby calling Christ a liar. But you don't want that fact to get out, do you? You sir are either a liar, a fool or both. You mention your "accredited book:" but you conveniently forget to mention exactly what that book is. You talk about investigative reporting? LOL! Ever write a thesis or even a book report? Give us an ISBN number, cite the book title, author(s), chapter and page(s). I'm betting it is a self-serving Masonic book published by and for Masons which is why you will not give a reference. You might as well cite references from "Mein Kampf" to support theories about racial superiority. You have cited NOTHING to prove in any way what I said about Washington is false, so therefore it stands as true.
Address the issue I raised with the words JOBULUN, Mahabone, etc, sir. You and I know you never will because of your "sacred, secret oath" never to discuss those things unless with brother Masons and as you have probably figured out, I am not a mason nor will I ever be one (was offered the "opportunity" to join, told them where to stick it).
I put my faith in Jesus Chrsit, Yeshua Hamasheach and Him alone.
You said " I do not believe we were born in sin and are not good ---"
Then you deny the Bible and what Jesus Christ say (Psalm 14, Romans 3:23, NKJV) . Your argument is not with me (I am not a Catholic either) but with God. As for your "enlightenment", it would be laughable if not for the fact that it is so pathetic. You are steeped in the darkness and rituals of Masonry and you are woefully ignorant of what the bible really says regarding your type of "enlightenment". (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)
Again sir, I challenge you to address the issues of JOBULUN, Mahabone, etc., which I raised before, in an open and honest discussion. If you cannot then I must conclude that you are a fraud and a liar in which case I want nothing more to do with you.