ATLAS EXCLUSIVE: FJORDMAN ON "FASCIST", CHARLES JOHNSON, LITTLE GREEN FOOTBALLS

What follows is an essay by Fjordman on what I consider to be the dangerous, almost lethal hypocrisy of bloggers, pundits and their followers on the right who have taken up against brave men and women fighting the spread of Islamic supremacism taking over their respective countries . What began as an assault on the transatlantic Counter Jihad  movement in October of last year, has metastasized. Just this past weekend, a small group of peaceful protesters were set upon and Jews were beaten while being called "Nazis" and "fascists" during what was to be a peaceful protest against the islamification of Europe.This is pure evil at its most base. I believe this polemic had a hand in empowering these thugs.  Who are the Nazis, the fascists? It certainly infected the already poisonous leftist/Islamic narrative.

Then, as now, I am confounded by the irrational position of those in the blogosphere that point fingers at those fighting the scourge of Islamic imperialism in Europe and America (myself included). In covering the spread of the global jihad, I am steeped in the evil of the hegemony of Islam, sharia law and the stealth jihad. One does not not have to go far to find hatred of the West, anti-semitism,and  the careful dismantling of our freedoms everyday. Evil is all around us so it is nonsensical to me to spend unlimited energy trying to find an incriminating "gotcha" moment or smoking gun on  folks like Filip Dewinter who have put themselves and their families at great risk to fight the leftist/Islamic alliance and align themselves with Israel.

Why sit in the middle of a haystack searching for the proverbial needle, while the barn burns?

In free societies, free man can speak, assemble, demonstrate  - but no more. I stood by Europeans desperate to save their countries then and I stand by them now.

Here is Fjordman's essay:

FJORDMAN September23 2008

In late 2007 and early 2008, I was involved in a heated argument with the American blog Little Green Footballs and its owner Charles Johnson. I haven't been thinking much about it since then because it consumed too much energy and I found it to be a waste of time. However, recent events have caused me to look at these issues once more. In the city of Cologne (Köln), Germany, a scheduled anti-Islamization demonstration was disrupted by an unholy alliance of Eurabian Multicultural elites and extreme Leftist "anti-Fascists." As Thomas Landen puts it in The Brussels Journal:

"Last weekend's events in Cologne demonstrate what European conservatives are up against. A conference protesting the building of a mega mosque run by Turkish radicals was violently disrupted by thugs who gained the approval of the local German authorities and the German media. The international media, including the so-called 'conservative' media, have either not written about the Cologne incidents or done so by branding the conservatives as 'Neo-Nazis' and the thugs as ordinary citizens bravely fighting back 'Nazism.' An example of the latter can be found in The Times of London."

According to magazine Der Spiegel, "an estimated 40,000 protesters turned up in Cologne's downtown Heumarkt area, many wearing clown suits, to disrupt the rally. They blocked urban trains to keep delegates away and raided a tourist boat shaped like a whale - called the 'Moby Dick' - where the far-right gathering had been hoping to hold a press conference. A Pro Cologne spokesman said, 'Stones, bricks and paint bombs were thrown and the panoramic windows of the Moby Dick were shattered.' Police cancelled the rally after 45 minutes. Pro Cologne organizers had to dismantle microphones and other equipment in Heumarkt while the overwhelmed riot cops tried to hold back the crowd of protesters."

According to Der Spiegel, Police had prepared for about 1,500 far-right activists, organized by the local 'Pro Cologne' movement, to make a public show of discussing what they called the 'Islamization' of Europe."

As the esteemed American writer and columnist Diana West commented: "The suggestion here is that no non-'far-right activist' could possibly be so 'far right' as to imagine Europe is being Islamized….The point of the anti-Islamization rally was rational discussion. But Cologne proved it values neither reason nor discussion. 'The city was ready.' For mob rule."

The supposedly conservative newspaper Die Welt put up an online poll asking their readers whether they thought it was OK to ban the anti-Islamization demonstration. According to the major blog Politically Incorrect, as of midnight 86% disagreed with this policy. Suddenly, in the middle of the night, thousands of votes miraculously came in and the poll ended with exactly 50% in favor of the ban. Die Welt deleted the comment section because many comments criticized the decision to ban the Pro Cologne meeting.

Several eyewitnesses who were present this weekend were shocked by the behavior of the police, who in their eyes seemed to be acting as a surrogate of the left-wing "antifa" groups (supposedly anti-Fascists, although they tend to behave pretty much exactly like Fascists).

Aviel, a Jewish man who was beaten up in Cologne on 20 September, explains:

"My [Jewish] friend, Michael Kucherov was the first casualty here on Friday. He got beaten up for trying to enter the first of our [=Pro Cologne] meetings on Friday. I sorely resent myself for not being there at that time for him. It rips me apart to hear about a Jew being beaten up in the streets of Germany. Well he wouldn't be the only Jew. The next day as I was trying to enter Heumarkt, I was beaten up by Antifa thugs on Eibahnstrasse. In both incidents, as we were being beaten up, they were yelling and screaming 'Nazi' which was quite odd. Michael dressed in a suit but I was wearing my kippa and quite easily identified as a Jew so you can understand how odd it seems to be beaten by Germans in the street and called Nazi when you are Jewish. Anyway, I am going home with a broken rib but my pride still intact. I could have tried to escape or run but no way no how and I going to run or get on my knees for these people. Not this Jew. And one more thing, just let them all know that we (Jews) aren't all soft. Living here in Europe, we battle thugs and islamists all the time and still ask for more. That's why I traveled from France to Germany to make this conference. We are on the frontline of a battle which grows darker by the minute."

A Norwegian man blogging under the name maalmannen experienced something similar and posted many photos from the event:

"On several occasions, I observed people trying to join the demonstration being attacked and chased away by the leftist counter-demonstration. In one case, an old woman carrying a lot of anti-Islamization posters was attacked by a gang of Antifa activists. The rest of the crowd shouted 'Nazis raus' [Nazis out] when these criminals attacked the old frau and took all her posters away from her, and then ordered her to leave or risk more attacks."

Spanish writer AMDG from the blog La Yijad en Eurabia adds his observations:

"It was obviously not possible to enter the Heumarkt. I tried one of the narrow streets of the old city; there was a line of antifas with black clothing and sun glasses. They have even dared to place one of those plastic red-white stripes in front of them. I told one of them that I wanted to cross, they say no way. One of them spoke Spanish, and I ask her whether she was any authority, she confirmed it 'we are the authority'. A line of anti-riot police agents was only two meters behind them. I can not find a better image of the creeping Eurabian fascism: The police not only do not confront them, they cover their backs. Alternatively, we may think that the antifa-lefty militants are just the stormtroopers (Sturmabteilung?) of the formal police."

A number of those demonstrating for "democracy" and against "extremism" were Communists. I guess a hundred million dead victims of Communism in a few generations isn't a sign of extremism. Some also carried anti-Israeli slogans and merchandise using the icon of Marxist mass murderer and torturer Che Guevara. It is well-known that hardline Marxist organizations are still strong and influential in Germany, as in many other countries.

Many of those present noticed the militant-looking black outfits of some of the extreme Leftist demonstrators, which seemed to match closely with their attitudes. Since the term "Fascist" these days appears to be reserved for anti-Islamists and "racist" critics of mass immigration in general and Muslim immigration in particular, it is challenging to find a proper term for the militant antifa crowd. "Red Nazis" could be useful, but perhaps "blackshirts" is most appropriate, alluding to their black clothing and uniforms.

According to AMDG, "I think that we should repeat this rally every year. We need to show the Europeans that the Nazis and the fascists are the lefties. We can only make it by insisting. We need to join also the counterdemo with banners showing verses of the Koran."

The decision to silence the demonstration against Islamization was supported by local authorities as well as national and probably supranational ones. Thomas Steg, spokesman for German Chancellor Angela Merkel, stated that Berlin favored "inter-cultural dialogue." The German Interior Ministry, too, criticized the rally, stating that "Such a gathering of populists and extremists harms the co-existence that the city and Muslim citizens have striven for."

Cologne Mayor Fritz Schramma, from the same "conservative" Christian Democratic Party (CDU) as Chancellor Merkel, said on public radio that "We don't want their conference and along with a great majority of Cologne people we'll be obstructing them."

In my view, Cologne Mayor Fritz Schramma is a dhimmi collaborator. His actions betray his city, his country and his civilization. This was a shameful act of cowardice and appeasement of the Nazis of our time. The true heirs of the Nazis and the Communists, both in totalitarian mentality and in methods, were the blackshirt left-wingers who were present this day, not those who demonstrated against the Islamization of their continent. Schramma should resign immediately. It is nothing less than an international disgrace that after Germany has been freed from the Nazis and the Communists, the authorities in a major city in the largest country in Europe kneel to totalitarian thugs and allow them to rule the streets.

The blackshirts were deliberately allowed by the authorities to harass those who are critical of the official pro-Islamic policies. This confirms my long-held suspicion that the extreme Leftist thugs who assault immigration-critics in certain countries are a prolonged arm of the state. The "anti-Fascists" AFA in Sweden, for instance, openly brag about regular physical attacks against people they don't like. They have been doing this for years. The media and the authorities know about it and do nothing. They like it, plain and simple.

The state-sponsored organization Expo in Sweden co-published a book with AFA on critics of mass immigration. Expo has now provided their material to the largest political party in the country, the Social Democrats, for use against their political rivals.  The "respectable," state-funded organization Antirasistisk Senter, the Antiracist Center in Norway, at their home page link to AFA Stockholm, which they call "militant Swedish anti-Fascists." So they do know they are "militant," but not so much that they won't link to them. They also link to Antifaschistische Aktion (AFA) in Berlin, some of whose members were probably among the brave "anti-Fascists" who assaulted "racist" old ladies and Jewish "Nazis" in Cologne. The other organizations mentioned indicate that these are recommended links, not just "relevant links." This is met with silence from the mass media and the political class.

Norwegian newspaper Dagens Næringsliv has earlier exposed the fact that the largest "anti-racist" organization in the country, SOS Rasisme, was heavily infiltrated by Communists in the late 1980s and early 90s, in other words, during the downfall of Communism in Eastern Europe. They went directly from Communism to Multiculturalism, which indicates that some of them view Multiculturalism as the continuation of Communism by other means.

The state-funded Islamic Council of Norway admit that they receive "guidance" from the Muslim Brotherhood's spiritual leader Yusuf al-Qaradawi and his Fatwa Council, who are debating whether or not gays should be killed, among other things. He has also supported suicide bombings and marriage to girls aged nine years old. Meanwhile, a Socialist named Lars Gule, who was once arrested traveling to the Jewish state of Israel with dynamite in his backpack with the intention of blowing up stuff, suggested on a major blog that the security services should have me under surveillance because I am a dangerous "right-wing extremist."

One of the foreign visitors, the Flemish politician Filip Dewinter, criticized Cologne Mayor Schramma and compared him to Freddy Thielemans, the Socialist Mayor of Brussels, Belgium, who in 2007 and 2008 banned demonstrations commemorating the 2001 9/11 terror victims in the USA because he didn't want to upset the local Muslims. "Brussels and Cologne have mayors who kneel and submit to Islamization," Dewinter said.

I checked the front page of the major American "anti-Jihad" website Little Green Footballs (LGF) from Friday 19 to Tuesday September 23 2008 to check what blogger Charles Johnson wrote about the demonstration. As far as I could see, he remained completely silent on the subject, yet there is no doubt that he was aware of the event. On Sep 8 he wrote about "Fascists Hijacking Anti-Jihadism in Cologne" and stated that "Here we go again, as an all-star cast of European fascists hijacks the anti-jihad movement for their own sick political purposes."

One of these "Fascist bastards" (Johnson's words) was Dewinter, with his "Cities against islamisation" project. Mr. Johnson himself noted that the leaders of the Islamic Republic of Iran, hardly a beacon of tolerance and enlightenment, urged the European Union (not Germany, interestingly enough) to intervene and stop this planned "anti-Islamic" meeting, and Johnson concluded that "The Iranian mullahs couldn't have asked for better propaganda."

The Iranians put pressure on the EU several times and summoned the French ambassador - France held the rotating presidency of the EU - to expressed deep concern over the EU's lenient behavior toward anti-Islamic sentiments in Europe and suggested that European authorities prohibited the conference. Shouldn't the "anti-Jihadist" Johnson and his followers be concerned over the fact that they end up on the same side as a repressive and terrorist-sponsoring Islamic state against Westerners fighting for their freedom? Apparently not.

Just a few days before this, the "Fascist bastard" Filip Dewinter received the "Oriana Fallaci Prize" in Florence for his work with "Cities Against Islamisation," among other things. The prize is named after the courageous Italian Islam-critical journalist and writer Oriana Fallaci. The irony is that Mr. Johnson kept a photo of Fallaci on his frontpage for several years, but at the time of writing, this photo has suddenly and mysteriously disappeared. I guess Fallaci was a Fascist, too, just like Dewinter, myself and everybody else who doesn't believe in the myth of a moderate Islam. Dutch politician Geert Wilders does not appear to believe in the existence of a moderate Islam, either. When will LGF declare him a Fascist?

The LGF-crowd thinks that Europeans must prove that we are 100% "ideologically pure" before we should be granted the right to fight for our continued existence. Imagine if a house is on fire. The fire brigade has just arrived to put out the fire, but the neighbor won't allow them to use the local water because he fears it may be impure. He will only accept that they use holy water - distilled holy water - and only if it has been blessed by a lesbian priest who supports voting rights for illegal immigrants. Since the firefighters don't have this available, the house burns down, but the neighbor takes comforting in knowing that at least the remaining ash is ideologically pure. This is Little Green Football's attitude to the threat faced by the Western world. In fact, their attitude is to say that the water is more dangerous than the fire itself, and to beat the firefighters with their umbrellas while screaming "Fascist bastards!"

The thinking seems to be that if you scratch any random European there is usually a Nazi lurking underneath, just waiting to get out. There are only two possible versions of Europeans: the surrender-monkeys and the Nazis. If we are not the former, then it follows by logic that we have to be the latter. This attitude betrays an all-pervasive hatred that demonizes absolutely anything Europeans do to protect their dignity and heritage. It closely mirrors Multiculturalism, which is an anti-Western, but especially anti-European, hate ideology

One of the reasons why hardcore anti-Semites (David Duke would be a case in point) are unreliable allies is that they hate Jews so much that it shuts down the rational parts of their brain and they end up making common cause with Muslims, based on mutual hatred. The same logic applies to hardcore anti-Europeans, of which there are many even at "conservative" websites such as LGF. They have an irrational hatred, a dark cloud in their minds which prevents them from seeing the world clearly. In a way, some LGF-ers thus have more in common with David Duke than they'd like to admit. If mindless anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism should be considered a problem then so should mindless anti-Europeanism.

This weekend, we witnessed how violent thugs threatened, assaulted and in some cases beat up people they disagreed with, several of them Jews. These "anti-Fascist" blackshirts are closely related to the violent totalitarian movements of past generations, in their dress code, mentality and willingness to silence freedom of speech by brute force. In short, they resemble Fascists and Communists (some of them were Communists). What has Little Green Footballs, which never misses an opportunity to denounce "Fascists," written about this? So far, absolutely nothing. There are indeed people who behave like Fascists in Europe, and they receive tacit support from LGF while their victims are denounced as "Fascists."

I have watched, for the better part of a year, a number of decent human beings including, but not limited to, Pamela Geller, Paul Belien, Diana West, the Baron and Dymphna from the Gates of Vienna blog and many others, being at the receiving end of a vicious smear campaign from Charles Johnson and Little Green Footballs which is unlike anything I have seen in my life. After engaging in an insane witch-hunt on imaginary Fascists, whose ranks seem to grow every month, Mr. Johnson now suddenly chooses to look the other way in silence when very real Fascists use violence to silence their critics in a major Western city. I admit that makes me angry, and I think I have the right to be so.

The time has now come for Mr. Johnson to apologize in public to the numerous people he has smeared since the fall of 2007, starting with the ones I have mentioned above. It's not their credibility that's on the line here. It's his. If he continues to undermine those confronting Islamic infiltration, it will become increasingly difficult for LGF to present itself as an anti-Jihad website at all. At some point, the rapidly shrinking number of people in the northern hemisphere who haven't been banned from the site yet will be forced to ask themselves whether the website and its owner have simply switched teams and joined the Dark Side.

Comments

[seeteufel]

One must question where this new philosophy of multi- culture, open borders and infinite growth originated and the answers are not far away. Rapacious greed, the ugly face of capitalism, with the same philosophy as Islam. Without perpetual growth there will be stagnation and ultimate decay. Who is it that wants more and more immigration, open borders and no nationalism? Big business and the lefties they have carefully groomed through the decades. Tax is only for the little people, with open borders they will go wherever the tax is lowest. Socialism is good for the little people, it makes it much easier to get hold of their money via the government. The fact that this insane race to the bottom degrades the qualities of life for the average is of no concern to them, with enough money you can isolate yourself from the worst virus. Unions raised the standard of American life to the highest in the world, but like all organizations, once they are entrenched and in power they will abuse their power in the same way that corporations are now abusing theirs. Growing populations = growing markets = growing profits. Only if personal responsibility can be enforced, very easy to do, just dump welfare for the idle, can we return to a sane way of life. Just tell those prolific breeders : If you want to f**k like a rabbit, learn to eat grass. Tell those corporations that favour sweatshops : You want to pay 3rd world wages, sell your crap in the third world. Without the vast array of benefits that only the responsible hard workers pay for, there would be little immigration to the west. I know the theory is that without nationalism there will be no more wars. True,very few national wars, they all become internal.Basque, IRA, Serb/Kosovo, the list is endless and will continue to expand.

[epaminondas]

Continually raising this subject when the fascist issue is false but the WHITE EUROPE desired by VB is not, can only serve our enemies.

I urge you to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Fjordman is simply factually in error.
VB is an ethnic nationalist organization desirous of uniracial outcome. Dewinter has refused to repudiate this very issue. They regard Israel as an example of HOW that can be achieved.

Every time this is raised, this will come out. They are the heart and soul of islamist freaks' ablility to claim with any authority at all that counter jihad = islamophobia = racism.

No "ingenious argument' can turn aside Mr. Dewinter's sad desire from escaping attention.

VB is the CofCC with a nation to gain based on what THEY think is the example of Israel as a 'racially Jewish state'

[Den]

Sorry this is off topic, but can someone tell me if this article (Frontpagemag) is true pls? It is Donna Ron writing about her and Ayers and gang rape\date rape (shock!!!).

I found it linked, by a poster, on Ayers blog site and looking around, it is referenced elsewhere.

Donna Ron does appear to be a real live person, and can be found on numerous sites on the web....and youtube.

Does anyone know if this article is genuine please?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.aspx?GUID=9E8CD8A7-E90B-4311-8AA9-AEFD014A14B2

[pastorius]

Pamela,
You speak so self-righteously here, claiming that we who oppose Ethnic Nationalism are guilty of a

"lethal hypocrisy of bloggers, pundits and their followers on the right who have taken up against brave men and women fighting the spread of Islamic supremacism taking over their respective countries."

Truth is, I have expressed my concerns to you in very specific manner for over a year now, and you have never responded with anything other than these, factless emotional spews against people like me.

If you need me to restate my reasons for opposing Ethnic nationalism, I will do so. But, you have to promise to actually respond with a counter-argument.

The fact that you have not ever articulated any argument against the people on my side has led me to believe you have no positive vision for Western Civilization. Instead, you and your buddies only have a hatred for Islam, and that hatred has led you to ally yourselves with anyone who opposes Islam.

That is not enough.

Roosevelt, Reagan, and Lincoln led us to victory by giving us a vision to fight for.

I believed that this was the same endeavor that you and I had taken up.

I am deeply disappointed in you. You seem to lack any larger philosophical perspective.

So, what is it you believe in, Pamela? Your readers are waiting.

[Francis W. Porretto]

Johnson will never apologize. His opinion of himself has grown too large, because of his massive following.

The notion that the anti-Islamization coalition is "fascist" is beyond ludicrous. A few of them are against further immigration from non-European countries, and a few others are in favor of altering the laws to forbid immigrants' importation of whole extended families, but none of them advocate inflicting harm on anyone. They are among the best and most courageous people in Europe -- and they literally put their lives on the line every time they speak their minds.

Next to Dewinter and Wilders, Charles Johnson is ineffectual and insignificant.

[Pamela Geller]

Self righteous Pastorius? Hardly. I speak as a fed up and deeply concerned Jew, frightened for my people. I have not been ambiguous in any way.

Hatred of Islam? No. Hatred of Islamic supremacy, yes. Hatred of Islamic anti-semitism. Yes.

You and I completely disagree. I won't be nasty or assume your shit eating tone.

What do I believe? I believe in the Bush Doctrine. I will take a bullet for any one on my side. You are either with us or against us. Any Muslim that believes in Israel, in America, in freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and the separation of church and state is my brother and I will take a bullet for him (what did you call them? my buddies?)

Your mental masturbation is a luxury I cannot afford. Your navel contemplation is a free man's perk. Your self righteousness is an affront to every Jew, infidel, every proud Christian, Sikh, Buddahist in harm's way in Europe, Asia and Africa.

I do not see nationalism as the great evil that you do. I do not see nationalists beating up Muslims, attacking protesters, violating civil rights.

I love my nationalism. AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

I wear your disappointment of me as a badge of honor.

Your position is ridiculous. While you and your purists wrestle, Europe dies. There are many that secretly look forward to this. They believe Europe will reap what she has sewn. I do not know if you are among them. I am not.

Insofar as a "philosophical perspective" beyond good vs evil? I have none. I leave Nietzsche to you and your ilk.

[Natalie]

One of the finest Fjordman essays I have ever read. Well done.

[neverforget]

Now that is a humdinger, Pamela. Well done.

[pastorius]

Pamela,

You said: What do I believe? I believe in the Bush Doctrine. I will take a bullet for any one on my side. You are either with us or against us. Any Muslim that believes in Israel, in America, in freedom, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and the separation of church and state is my brother and I will take a bullet for him (what did you call them? my buddies?)

Your mental masturbation is a luxury I cannot afford. Your navel contemplation is a free man's perk. Your self righteousness is an affront to every Jew, infidel, every proud Christian, Sikh, Buddahist in harm's way in Europe, Asia and Africa.

(and, more of the same)

I say: There are no specifics in your answer.

My opposition is not to Nationalism, Pamela. My opposition is to Ethnic Nationalism.

What's more, I have written to you personally, as well as in your comments sections, and on my own website, on multiple occasions, about why I oppose Ethnic Nationalism.

And, you have never responded with any specifics in your answers to me. Instead, you have only given me these emotional diatribes lacking in reason.

Freedom and equality before the law are not mental masturbation.

[pastorius]

By the way, your answer to me is a demonstration of the fact that you don't know the difference between Nationalism and Ethnic Nationalism.

Considering the fact that I have written to you on numerous occasions on this issue, I have to believe you either do not read what I write (before you respond), or you are simply incapable of understanding what I write.

I believe you don't read what I write, but you do respond.

You seem to register any opposition as being traitorous. That's ridiculous.

By the way, the other people who respond to me in this way are the BNP. Everytime I disagree with them they call me a Communist.

If I were to take you at your word that the above is what you stand for (Nationalism, the Bush Doctrine, taking a bullet for those who stand with America and Israel) then I would have to believe you and I are in agreement.

But, we're not. Your continual support of Ethnic Nationalists demonstrates that.

Question is, do you even know who you are siding with?

What is Ethnic Ntionalism, Pamela?

[Diffie]

I liked the posts of Pastorius and Epaminondas very much and very reasonable. I also would emphasize especially the questions raised by Pastorius for I always liked this blog as a whole.

To the comment from Aviel: hillarious. It seems like nazis make a good partner in fight against antiwestern islamization.
"I do not blame the Muslims for what they do. It is in their nature." Ethnopluralism/-nationalism. "...the worst chaos and darkness since the 1920s and 30s". That's disgusting and absolute wrong, but the kind of typical results when it is no longer about discussion or analysis. Another point: when some communist shall have opposed islamization aswell as racism of the congress Aviel says it's worthless because of Stalin. Visiting Gates of Vienna a proud medieval knight can be seen on the left, linke to another blog. Obviously something like an old version of christian Europe gets presented as an alternative to Islam, therefor including old fashioned christian pogroms against jews. It seems like Stalin and Christianity are battling hard when it comes to massmurder; not to forget the Nazis, who want muslims out of "their" nations because they both have different "natures".

By the way: three persons were murdered in Germany in August by the scum which represents the core of what runs behind these nazis of NPD and ProKöln. Rick, Marcel, Cha Dong... One of many dark moments in history of postnazi Germany, but of no interest for people like Aviel or Fjordman.

[syn]

"I urge you to LEAVE IT ALONE."

First they championed Oriana Fallaci now they slime as far-right-wing-neo-nazi.

For her sacrifice I won't leave it alone.

[syn]

three persons were murdered in Germany in August by the scum which represents the core of what runs behind these nazis of NPD and ProKöln."

Well 130 gang members were murdered buy other gang members in Chicago over a two weekend period, does this mean Obama and Rev Wright are gang members?

[syn]

"Freedom and equality before the law are not mental masturbation."

Well your good friends in Cologne, Germany dressed themselves up as clowns, shut down free speech and beat up a bunch a people......so what the hell are you talking about?

[Pamela Geller]

I fight for freedom and equality. Sharia, subjugation, oppression are the goals of the opposition.

I do not agree with you. You slap your sloppy label on whole groups and walk away from people desperate to have the freedom that you have.

Any party (such as the BNP in Britain) that has obvious openly pro Nazi leanings -- it's important to point that out and fight them. They are but a footnote and should be relegated to the very fringe of decent society.

I can tell the difference between a self preserving nationalism as opposed to an aggressive hateful nationalism. If Europe collapses, lord knows what will rise in its place. I'd like to work to see that we never get to that point.

The aspiration should be if you emigrate to a country, you become part of that country. If the UK is generous enough to take you in, give you benefits, healthcare, education, etc it is incumbent upon you to become British ........ you don't spend all of your time, money, and mosque attempting to over throw the Queen. Nationalism is a good.

You cling to the term "ethnic nationalism". It's a canard and it's not going to fly here. It's intellectually dishonest.You're deep concern for the ghosts of the last war is endearing but tedious. Stop fighting the last war. Stop fetishizing the dead Jews and help the live Jews survive.

The Holocaust while it was a German initiative, was carried out by every nation in Europe, save for the Danes. There were Dutch Nazis, Polish Nazis, Europe as a continent decided it was a good idea to get rid of the Jews. Holland had the highest rate of collaboration with the Nazis, higher than any other country in Western Europe. 95% of Dutch Jews were murdered.

Caroline Glick said in my radio interview with her, the lesson the Europeans took away from the aftermnath of WW2 is insidious. "The lesson that Europe had decided to avail itself to in the aftermath of Auschwitz, was not that evil is bad and that they behaved like monsters but rather that everything was caused by nationalism and therefore what we really need to do is have a European Union that will obviate our need for nationalism so that we can become this transnational gobbletygook and we'll all get together and therefore we won't have another Auschwitz.
But really the lesson should have been is that we were evil and we have to be good. And that is the lesson we have to learn and and we have to be able and willing ot make moral distinctions and stand up for the good and fight evil and that is something the Europeans refuse to do."

They are constantly having memorials to dead Jews while condemning Israel for every act of of self defense no matter how benign it is, in the defense of innoncent Jewish citizens.

Nationalism isn't bad. American nationalism wasn't bad, has never been bad. British nationalism hasn't been bad. French nationalism isn't bad. Polish nationalism isn't bed. Czech nationalism wasn't bad.

The thing that was bad was that Germany which decided to embrace madness and evil as its central unifying characteristic under the Nazis. That is what the problem was, it was not nationalism per se. And its still not nationalism.

They took all the wrong lessons from WW2 and applying them while ignoring the only lesson that's really relevant from WW2 which is that you have to choose good and defend good and fight with the intention of defeating evil.

[Pamela Geller]

Oh and Epa, stop telling me to keep quiet every time this subject comes up.This is not the first time you have told me to stop talking about it. If you don't want to hear it, don't come here.

Don't ever tell me what I can or can't run.

[syn]

" It seems like Stalin and Christianity are battling hard when it comes to massmurder; not to forget the Nazis, who want muslims out of "their" nations because they both have different "natures".

Other than can you possibly exceed your bigotry...do you not know that Nazis collaborated with Muslims? Do you not know Hilter met with the Grand Mufti to establish a Muslim army in the Balkins? Or do you just see white people as nazi jesuslanders out to get you.

How can you ramble on with all this shit and expect anyone to take you seriously.

[Pamela Geller]

Pastorius, we disagree on VB and frankly, we are not on the same side.

[blocked]

What is your obsession with meeting Charles Johnson's degenerate standards? He is a con-man. That music he posts on his site, isn't about him being a nice guy; he makes money from it.

Real neocons wouldn't give the time of day to dirtbags like self- important bloggers

[thebronze]

Yeah, good luck with getting people to agree with you, when you equate LGF to David Duke.

Bad move.

[Pamela Geller]

Offline communication? You and I haven't spoken in a almost a year Pastorius. You give the impression that we have some sort of a relationship. We do not.

The one or two times we have corresponded I have always been forthright and true as is my nature.I have never avoided you.

Peddle your little petty lies on your own blog. Your hissy fit here is disturbing

[sheik yer'mami]

Ahh, Diffie, another symbol chaser.

Care to explain what's so " disgusting and absolute wrong?" And if you so care about scum murdering foreigners in Germany, why don't you mention this as well:
http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2008/09/germany-honor-violence-on-roads.html
2 persons murdered in Germany (honor-killing related) or is this for you collateral damage?
Ethnic nationalism is the fabric of Europe. Every Italian, German, Brit and Spaniard along with all the others have a G-d given right to defend their traditions, history, their present existence and their future against invaders, and Europe is being invaded as we speak. Europe is not America and will never be like America.

As an ex-European Aussie Jew I stand with Pamela and Fjordman and support everyone who actively works against our enemies inside and outside. Against FGM, mysogyny, polygamy, Islam-terror, the Jiziyah, subjugation of unbelievers, perversion of the law, infiltration of government bodies, head & limp chopping, killing of homosexuals, honor killings, child rape and a hundred other things that are as Islamic as Muhammad himself.

No to Islam: no more mosques, no more madrassahs, a permanent moratorium on Muhammedan immigration, internment and deportation of anyone who subscribes to the jihad ideology. This is our basic right and in the interest of OUR self-preservation. THEIR 'HUMAN RIGHTS' will have to take a backseat until we sort ourselves out.

If we don't do that, what future is there for our kids? No wonder we're not breeding if everyone is scared shitless!

[softwaregurus]

"What is your obsession with meeting Charles Johnson's degenerate standards? He is a con-man. That music he posts on his site, isn't about him being a nice guy; he makes money from it.

Real neocons wouldn't give the time of day to dirtbags like self- important bloggers"

Agreed. Unbelieveably, Johnson's agenda has moved left of center. Back to his hippie days I suppose. Now his latest rant is about creationism. That's right. The awful, sleazy, mad, vile, illogical, perverted belief that G-d created man and the universe (not in that order of course). He bloviates on and on about this at least once a week. For what purpose? What is the threat? Of course, when I asked he didn't answer and I was banned. LGF has become a backwater blog. Now, I rarely visit it, save to see what other obnoxious rants he's got going.

Oh btw, during WWII, the United States joined forces with one of the most disgusting regimes on Earth to help defeat Nazism. So why is it wrong to join forces with Nationalists to help defeat Islamism?

[George Bruce]

Why does there always have to be desperate fighting in the streets and millions of casualties before people wake up?

And why does Mr. Johnson call the ONLY people in Europe who oppose the invasion, colonization and eventual subjugation of their homeland fascist? And the people who act like real fascists are called anything but?

And why is it that the only people who are trying to avoid death and destruction are hated by all?

[de La Valette]

If we can't agree on this subject with using reason and morality as guides; then lets use logic.

The anti-jihad movement will fail, utterly, if they do not lose this neo-nazi albatross.

Here in the US the right wing was slowly dying under our own albatrosses (The John Birch Society, Goldwater, and Buchanan), because of the efforts of men like WF Buckley socially conservative, economic liberalism, and American nationalism remain a force in American politics.

Someone in Europe needs to step up and draw the line. Deny the BNP and VB; and all of the other marginal groups a role in the fight against Islam. Demand intellectual accountability and force the media to acknowledge the difference. This needs to be someone with a media presence and intellectual credentials that suit "European" public opinion.

This battle against Islam is not Poiters, you don't need foot soldiers. It is an economic, demographic, and above all else a public relations war. Affording the neo-nazis and other fascist a spot in your lines is a weak point the muslims and the left will exploit.

Don't worry about the other part of the fight; with or without your armies, Islam will not prevail against the American military. The terrorists will strike against, it will hurt; but in the end they will die in caves. We can only lose to an festering, internal rot. An important fight is going on in the US right now, but in the long run Europe is at greater risk.

[Azygos]

"What is your obsession with meeting Charles Johnson's degenerate standards? He is a con-man. That music he posts on his site, isn't about him being a nice guy; he makes money from it."

"And why does Mr. Johnson call the ONLY people in Europe who oppose the invasion, colonization and eventual subjugation of their homeland fascist? And the people who act like real fascists are called anything but?"

In my opinion as I have said before I believe Mr Johnson to be mentally ill. As a guess I would say he is probably bipolar with a touch of schizo affective disorder. That so many are drawn to his site frightens me.

pastorius,

If you are going to argue ethnic nationalism vs nationalism can you either explain yourself or provide a link that does? I can follow Ms Gellers arguments but yours just leave me confused.

[pastorius]

Pamela,

You said: Any party (such as the BNP in Britain) that has obvious openly pro Nazi leanings -- it's important to point that out and fight them. They are but a footnote and should be relegated to the very fringe of decent society.

I say: I agree with you there.

Pamela says: I can tell the difference between a self preserving nationalism as opposed to an aggressive hateful nationalism.

I say: Why does Filip DeWinter have a picture of Jean Marie LePen on his bookshelf in the room where he spends time with his children? Answer: Because he agrees with LePen. LePen is his friend. And yet, LePen is notorious for his anti-Semitism.

As Epaminondas pointed out, the VB supports Israel because they see Israel as an Ethnic Nationalist state. Truth is, Israel is, like the U.S., a nation founded on an Ideology; that of Judaism.

The Ethnic Nationalists believe Israel is a race-based country. That is the same idea that Hitler had when he determined that the Jews were an inferior race, and decided that he would kill anyone who had a grandparent who was a Jew.

Now, clearly, DeWinter has not called to kill Jews, but still, he is operating under the same wrong idea of Jews as was Hitler, which is that they can be summed up racially, when in fact, they are a religion, and a religion is an ideology.

A person can become a Jew. There are Jews of all races.

A person can not become a member of another race.

A French person can not become a Waloon, for instance.

Ethnic Nationalist Belgians call for Belgium to be for Waloons, not French Belgians. That is the problem with Ethnic Nationalism.

Ultimately, if the French are outbreeding the Waloons, or if they are being more successful in the society, then the only option an Ethnic Nationalist has is to make laws which will ensure that the Waloons maintain control of the country. Such laws would (in the case of a demographic problem) include population control, or (in the case of an economic problem) include economic laws, such as the Nazis enacted against the Jews when they wouldn't allow them to hold certain positions in government or business.

Ethnic Nationalism is not fascism in its essence, but will inevitably grow to have to enact fascist laws in order to maintain its "ethnicity" in the case of any challenge to the ethnic hold on power.

Pamela says: Caroline Glick said in my radio interview with her, the lesson the Europeans took away from the aftermnath of WW2 is insidious. "The lesson that Europe had decided to avail itself to in the aftermath of Auschwitz, was not that evil is bad and that they behaved like monsters but rather that everything was caused by nationalism

I say: I'm not talking about Nationalism. I'm talking about Ethnic nationalism.

Pamela says: Offline communication? You and I haven't spoken in a almost a year Pastorius. You give the impression that we have some sort of a relationship. We do not.

I say: This is not true. You and I have spoken on the phone and exchanged emails, and we have discussed this very subject on multiple occasions over the course of the past year. And yes, you have been forthright with me.

The only reason this point is pertinent to the discussion is because I want you to know that I kept my disagreement with you private all this time. But, since you are back making what I believe is the same mistake, and frankly, taking it to a whole 'nuther level, I am going to be publicly forthright about my disagreement, and opposition, to what I see as your mistaken understanding of the issue.

This is not pleasant for me, because I respect you in so many ways. That's why I say I am disappointed in you.

Certainly, you have supporters in very high places. Sadly, they must agree with you. And, I find that to be frightening.

[Ernest T Bass]

I've watched the whole LGF spectacle and I have to come down firmly on the side of Fjordman and the Europeans on this. Johnson's mentality really doesn't all that different from 'If you don't vote for Obama, you're a racist' we are hearing these days. It's myopia an projection run amok. It's both ignorant and stupid and I stopped visiting LGF long, long ago.

Count me as another American who is happy and proud to support those defending Europe's distinct historical cultures, peoples, traditions, and self-determination.

[Pamela Geller]

waloons indeed. Perfect. You go chasing after your what ifs and could bes, I'll deal with the terrible unfolding of events that are actually happening.

I do not see the threat of possible what-if implications like you do. I do not believe your what if scenario is going to actually happen. That is not the way events will unfold if predicting the future is the silly game we are engaging in at the moment.

I do not believe Dewinter supports Israel for malevolent reasons. That is a complete misrepresentation of Dewinter's support of Israel. Read his interviews, his articles, his speeches - shame on you.

Filip Dewinter in Haaretz
Filip Dewinter in Jewish Week

and his remarks at the Counter Jihad

I have not spoken with you on more than one or two occasions in the past year and that is only because we are both hosts of the "Voices of Freedom" radio show on KFNX 1100 am.

I have no problem with you tudeing out on my here just don't portray a relationship where there is none.

[neverforget]

Whoever asked "...if it meant Obama and Rev (sic and sick) Wright are gang members?" Yes, they are, more than you can possibly imagine.

[sheik yer'mami]

Pastorius sez:

"Ethnic Nationalist Belgians call for Belgium to be for Waloons, not French Belgians. That is the problem with Ethnic Nationalism."

Totally irrelevant. Their internecine squabbles are of no concern to us. In order to fight the Islamization of our countries we need every swinging dick on deck.

No war has ever been won without alliances of some sort, everything else can be sorted out later. No, there are not Nazi's and White Power supremacists behind every bush and I don't buy the morally superior drivel of the canniballistic Lizards and their antiseptic 'holier than thou' attack on us. I respect the people who stand up against the Islamic nightmare, especially when they are being vilified, beaten up and derided by thugs like in Cologne last week. I stand with Geert Wilders, Oriana Fallaci, Pamela Geller, Ayaan Ali Hirsi, Mark Steyn, Ezra Levant a.o. and I spit on our enemies, regardless of color or political affiliation.

Those who deny us are traitors. Go f*kc yourselves!

[pastorius]

You're right. I got that wrong. That's embarrassing.

LOL

Well, that's just like me.

But, the point is the same. What you have there is people who are dividing themselves up on racial lines. And, you're supporting the idea. Right?

Or, have I missed something, and are the French treating the Flemish people the same way the Muslims treat Infidels and Jews?

[pastorius]

And, by the way, you still haven't demonstrated that you know the difference between Nationalism and Ethnic Nationalism.

[darrinh]

"You said: Any party (such as the BNP in Britain) that has obvious openly pro Nazi leanings -- it's important to point that out and fight them. They are but a footnote and should be relegated to the very fringe of decent society."

This is untrue. The BNP have in recent years struggled hard to remove the neo-nazi element in their ranks and I think have been successful. It is no small feat to accomplish. In Australia it proved too difficult so we formed our own party and as a result have faced threats and intimidation from the neo-nazi set, but these true neo-nazis side with Islam and as far as we're concerned are one and the same enemy.

[Pamela Geller]

Here's the deal Pastorious - I think you've gone off the deep end. You are playing some imaginary war game. Where are these legions of ethnic nationalists? Show me the hell they are wreaking on free men. Show me the violence they are exacting on societies across the free world. Show me the manifestations of their aspiration of worldwide domination.

Are there a couple of Nazis running around? Yeah. Are they the problem? No.

This is hamster motor time.

Let me finish the oped I am working on for tomorrow's issue of AT, prepare for DC and help Margo with her homework and then I can come back and help you feel as if you are doing something to further the discourse.

[Underzog]

Fjordman is right with his analogy about who one should only use holy water and if not using it "let the house burn down."

Unlike the stunted Charles Johnson, I'm not concerned with looking "pure and just" to the enemies of western civilization and freedom. DeWinter, Beliens; etc., deserve our support for their attempt to stop the Islamization of Europe.

Has Charles and his lizard sychophants ever proposed a solution or acceptable trade offs (Thomas Sowells phrase)on what to do with the Arabs in Israel. The Rabbi Kahane idea of throwing the Arabs out of Israel (which I support and worked for) is meet with merely a comment of nausea by Mr. Johnson.

Of course, Charles Johnson's appeasement of the enemies of freedom does not help him. Those Libertarian idiots at "Reason Magazine" smeared him (as they did Michelle Malkin, myself, and others) and openly express their hatred for him because of their support of terrorist Muslims and anti-Semitism.

I'm not interested in being simon pure to the Liberal cocktail party crowd, but, instead, keeping Israel, where much of my family is, from going under and the general preservation of western civilization from the islamic hordes.

Mr. Johnson is not the only one who can play music either. So can I (http://tinyurl.com/56bffa) and so can Pamela Gellar:

The updated portion of the Underzog website:

[Cornelius]

Pastorius,

I actually agree with your over-all argument, that the counter-Jihad is best served by disassociation with the racist Right, both for ethical and practical reasons. But your obsession with what you call "ethnic nationalism" borders on banality.

Might I point out that the Kurds are "ethnic nationalists" in every sense of the word...because their identity is based upon ethnicity and language, not nation (since they have never had one). They have been oppressed for centuries by Arab, Persian and Turk alike. Does this equate them to the BNP? Does it de-legitimize their quest for a national identity? Of course not.

There are other examples of ethnic nationalism being anything but a malevolent force. It is a phenomenon that is only as illegitimate and malevolent as the methodologies of its practitioners.

A rabid nationalism without an ethnic component (e.g., today's Iran where ideology - Islam - is king and Persians are barely a majority of the populace, but a country that is profoundly nationalist nonetheless) could be much more dangerous than an "ethnic nationalism" with a moderate program (e.g., Inuits in Alaska and Canada).

Don't get hung up on semantics.

[Peter Verkooijen]

Pamela and co, I'm Dutch, living in New York since 2002. You are clueless about politics in Europe.

To me the fight against islamic fascism is a fight for democracy. You can't defend democracy by allying with neo-nazis and fascists.

Dewinter and Wilders are not on the same side! Pim Fortuyn despised Dewinter, Haider, Le Pen etc. There is a huge difference between principled (classic) liberals like Fortuyn, Wilders, Van Gogh, Hirsi Ali etc. and your new neo-nazi friends.

The neo-fascists are not natural conservative allies. Their ideology is rooted in socialist statism, racism and feudalism. They're about preserving a status quo at all costs, not about democratic principles.

European politics is complicated and frustrating to navigate. It's one of the reasons why I left. You are way out of your depts, doing more harm than good.

[jj]

pamela and friends:

there is an irony here, in this furor that has erupted in the comment section over pamela’s post and fjordman’s essay on recent events in europe, most specifically the rioting and violence perpetrated against the european nationalists opposing the conquest of europe by islam.

that irony, being of course, that no discussion of either the content of fjordman’s essay in taking place among the commentators, re: the accuracy of fjordman’s report or the events reported therein, nor any discussion of the merit or lack of merit of the central thesis that he advances in his essay, that the fastidious refusal of american conservatives to join in support of the euro nationalists in their fight against islam is crippling the fight against islam.

there is considerable back and forth about this and that, and a great deal of rancor expressed by one correspondent who feels slighted that no one wants to pay very much attention to what he wants to say about the whole issue, … , but there is very little discussion about what fjordman has to say, or about the firsthand accounts of what occurred in germany.

again, i find this a major irony, and, quite frankly, very disturbing.

because, whether you agree with fjordman or not, and i will kill the suspense by indicating that i do ever so enthusiastically, fjordman has reported facts (underlying and girding his opinions) which ought to prove monumentally disturbing to anyone who believes either in free speech, free association, the right to petition for redress and to demonstrate in support of same, … , in short, which ought to be profoundly disturbing to anyone who adheres to western notions of political liberty.

you will notice i have not said anything, yet, about fjordman’s opinions of charles johnson, which i also share quite enthusiastically, but about the glorious job of factual reporting done by fjordman about this issue, and the glorious job done by our blog proprietor in reporting on this, as contrasted to the ignominious omission on the part of the mainstream media to do the same.
what are the facts reported by fjordman? just the facts ma’am, just the facts.
first, certain european nationalists, if you will, sought redress of their grievances by way of a legal permissible and permitted public assemblage, then and there to state their views openly and peaceably, and to try and preserve, in their opinion, a heritage and way of life that they view as precious and legitimate. they ask no more, apparently, then the right to exist as they have existed.

as i understand fjordman’s essay and as supplemented & substantiated by pamela geller’s own inimitable reporting about 15,000 such persons were expected to occupy, legally, a town square set aside for such purpose.

they were thwarted in their efforts to do so.

they were thwarted in their efforts to do so by the threatened and actual use of physical intimidation and violence. certain groups, and it seems impossible for the main ones to disclaim responsibility because they openly boast about it, with a whole lot of pre-planning and a very disciplined operation, blocked and barricaded public streets, and interfered with public transportation, to prevent the nationalists from gaining the public square and from attending the rally. if persons attempted to gain the square, they were accosted, their signage taken away and destroyed, and any numbers of them were beaten. i have heard of no fatalities, although broken bones are reported.

who were the people who prevented this free assembly of people to express peaceably their opinions?

pay attention here folks, for at this point, there is another substantial irony which apparently has escaped you all. everyone.

the person responsible for blocking access to this rally were a coalition of german and european communists, leftists, green party members, european and immigrant muslims, and clowns, quite literally. i am not heard it reported, but i am sure we had bolsheviks, mensheviks, trotskyites, tree spikers, thumbsuckers, bedwetters, and most certainly at a gathering like this, a pederast or two. i have no doubt that there might have even been a college professor thrown in the mix somewhere.

now, no doubt, it will occur to some of you that not all of the persons who attacked the euro nationalists that day would agree with each other on every occasion, but when it came time to brutalize the voices of liberty, they put aside their differences for that day, and worked together, ideological purity be damned.

the most alarming aspect of this, so far unmentioned by any contributor to this comment furor but very duly noted by pamela and fjordman, was that the connivance to quash this attempt at free expression, to exercise their “liberties” as members of the european union, on the part of the ralliers by the governmental authorities ostensibly charged with the responsibility to make sure they could voice their opinions.

the police did nothing to protect or hinder those attempting to gain access to and participation in the rally. in one portion of fjordman’s essay, he noted that black shirted thugs and hooligans prevented egress and access on public streets, while police stood by idly, and while the blackshirts baldly asserted that they were the authority on the streets that day. folks, folks, folks, do any of you understand how close europe is to a muslim inspired anarchy, by way of such actions. given this sort of thing, and the riots and france and the absolute powerlessness of the french police to stop it, … , the streets are being run by an anarchist cabal of leftist, marxists, communists, green party lunatics and clowns. (it is not funny, by the way, it is just as insidious a way to hide a thug’s identity as a burkha or a baklava, or a hooded sweat shirt, and will now be just as sinister.) it is the “joker” given actual physical existence, and it is not funny.)

fjordman also reported another thing, not passed upon in these comments, and that is the connivance of the elected political officials to use these “counter demonstrators” to suppress opinion not the dominant political strain in european affairs. the elected mayor of koln, the mayor of berlin, and officials of the euro union spoke of the partnership and approval they had of these, efforts to quash the message of the rally, to prevent people from getting to it. the fucking elected officials.

folks, folks, folks, … , this is not democracy, this is not liberty, this is tyranny.

and the greater majority of you have not the sense in the midst of all your wrangling, save pamela and fjordman, has the g_d given good sense to note the significance of the facts reported to you by them. instead you wrangle over this arcane definition or that arcane definition, as though they had vitality in the world apart from the basic facts of the matter.

well, you wrangle over your definitions while europe descends into a dark age of theocratic and ideological absolutism, an evil cabal of islam and leftist/marxist politics, with the rights of man trampled under feet, all you damn want.

but, i am here to tell you, that unless you perceive and apprehend the basic facts of this event, as set forth in this brilliant reportage and this magnificent essay, than your grasp on workable reality is very tenuous indeed. unless you choose to pay attention to these matters, and to apprehend what the facts of this “state sponsored terrorism” was as exercised by this unholy alliance of muslim terrorist thugs and marxist demagogues, then you are simply due to get steamrolled by the same phenomena in this country.

the ravings of a lunatic?

pray keep in mind that a united nations reporter, a sort of ombudsman without portfolio, is running around in the united states holding hearing s and taking witness testimony about efforts to suppress the expression of muslim right and expression in this country. he is looking to impose on this country, through the united nations charter, the same group speak legislation that prevents european nationalists from speaking out against the islamic invasion of europe by the muslim hordes.

the above paragraph, by the way, would be illegal if this united nations petty bureaucrat has his way about things. might i add over my cold dead body, when they pry the rifle from my fucking cold dead fingers.

well, i run long.

pay attention. stop your damned squabbling over picayune points, and little petty definitions, and first of all, attend to what in the hell happened in germany. it makes no difference your views are on this topic, or that topic, unless you understand the g_d damned facts of what happened, and their implications for the real world.

folks, we have a partnership in europe between those who want to conquer europe, and those who “govern” europe and want to turn it over, cart blanc, to the multiculturalists and to islam.

that appears to me, based on the events as described by fjordman and pamela, a cold hard fact. get used to it. and, comprehend it.

my next comment will be concerned with the opinions expressed by fjordman, with a preface entitled, “what is fascism?” i don’t think many of you know, so instead of making you guess which seems to be a favorite pastime of some correspondents, i am gonna take a stab at explaining it.

and, then i am going to say what i think of charles johnson, and his key role in crippling the european fight against islamic jihad and islamic conquest. whether he means to or not, he aids islam, and aids in the fall of europe.

john jay, milton freewater, oregon usa

[pastorius]

Cornelius,

You said: your obsession with what you call "ethnic nationalism" borders on banality.

Might I point out that the Kurds are "ethnic nationalists" in every sense of the word...because their identity is based upon ethnicity and language, not nation (since they have never had one). They have been oppressed for centuries by Arab, Persian and Turk alike. Does this equate them to the BNP? Does it de-legitimize their quest for a national identity? Of course not.

I say: Yes, the truth is, I don't support Kurdish Nationalism.

We have a blueprint for victory, and we have not followed it in Iraq. In Germany, Japan, and the American South, we proved that the way to win a war and effect real change is to destroy the enemy on the battlefield, and completely demoralize him with a final beating (Hiroshima, Dresden, Atlanta), and then - when we are finished fighting on the battlefield - to absolutely destroy the ideologies by which they worked.

In Japan, Germany, and the American South, we declared their ideologies to be illegal, and any assembly for the purpose of reinstituting that ideology resulted in the imprisonment of people.

We have not done that in Iraq.

Our enemy in Islam is, specifically, Sharia law.

And yet, Sharia is enshrined in the Iraqi Constitution. That happened under our watch.

As long as Sharia is a contributing factor to the law of the land, there will only be a sustaining of the tribalist ideology of Islam. Muslims have all sorts of sub-categories into which they will break themselves, and they will endlessly do battle with each other, because battle is what their religion/ideology teaches them.

So, as long as Islamic tribalism exists, there will be a need for separating the Muslims into groups, based upon branch of Islam, based upon ethnic identity, based upon local tribal identity, etc. etc.

So, the Kurds believe they need their own state, and we have gone along with them.

No, I don't believe that is rational. I think it is idiotic, but as it is the situation we created, perhaps it is a humane and preferable solution.

It's still a bad idea, and we will pay for it in the long run.

Why we didn't force the Iraqis to accept a true Republican Democracy I will never understand. We did it in Japan. But, we didn't think fit to do it in Iraq.

Of course, it would have required the destruction of Sharia, and perhaps the absolute banning of the Koran and the Hadith.

But, if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.

Remember, I asked this question: Do you support Hispanic Nationalism? Black Nationalism?

I know you don't. So, why support Kurdish Nationalism, or Flemish Nationalism?

[JewishOdysseus]

Oh, brother. Or sister.

Have these "purists" ever cracked open a history book? Have they never read the history of WW II, where OUR SIDE WON by allying with, among others, Iosif Stalin and Chiang Kai Shek? Do they know that the US Civil Rights Movement was riddled with real live communists and lunatic Islamists (check out the famous vid of MLK at the Mall--notice those funny-dressed guys next to him?) And then they invoke Reagan's revolution as a "pure" model for Europe...I DON'T KNOW WHETHER TO LAUGH OR CRY!! Who TF do they think all those emblematic Reaganite "captive natIons" reps were? THEY WERE "ETHNIC NATIONALISTS," YOU DOUCHEBAGS!! THEY WANTED TO KICK OUT THE RED RUSSIAN OCCUPIER...SO F'ING WHAT??!!

There has never been a war of resistance in all of history that didn't involve a coalition with different types. Typically some opportunists, scoundrels, or misfits join every cause. But when your cause is as threatened and marginalized and frightened as is the modern European resistance, it is absolutely suicidal to impose some kind of crackpot PC loyalty test. And you people need to understand, it is NOT a war of Europe against Islamism...IT IS A WAR OF ISLAMISM AGAINST THE WHOLE WORLD, AND VERY FEW PEOPLE ARE ACTIVELY RESISTING.

So what do these people do? They spend their time spitting on resisters beaten on the streets by the real imperialist invaders and their traitor red allies.

As opposed to these idiotic PC tests, here's the JewishOdysseus test for judging a morally acceptable cause by its members:

1--Do its members refrain from issuing death threats?
2--Do its members engage in lawful, normal exercise of free speech and protest?
3--Do its members refrain from violently suppressing other people who choose to engage in normal free speech and protest, but have different views?
4--Do its members refrain from receiving funds from hostile foreign governments?
5--Do its members refrain from receiving instructions from hostile foreign governments?
6--Do its members refrain from receiving weapons and terrorist training from hostile foreign governments?
7--Do its members refrain from inciting violence against other law-abiding citizens?
8--Do its members seek to import an alien ideology into their country?

I haven't seen a single credible claim that the anti-Islamization protests are linked to such unacceptable activities. Yet, somehow the people who oppose them feel the need to use violence, threats, and official corruption to protect "goodness and niceness," as the late great Maxwell Smart put it.

Someone mentioned LePen...One of my best buds from work, a long-time Dem and ferocious pro-Israel Jew, told me a few years ago: "Chirac and the rest hate the Jews and suck up to the Arabs, while LePen hates the Jews AND the Arabs...so LePen is better!" He was of course correct.

The Islamists are metastasizing through Europe at a rapid pace, and have cowed the Eurabians with terror and bribes. C'est tout. THEY ARE WAGING WAR ON EUROPE. For these Net clowns to run around and complain that REAL EUROPEANS have no right to complain about the violent and corrupt Islamization of their homelands because they are "ethnic nationalists" is so f'd up that I have to conclude they need to shut the goddam computer off, head down to the library, and sit down to read a real history book.

God bless Sheik Yermami, he hit the nail on the head: "WE NEED EVERY SINGLE SWINGING DICK ON DECK." Exactly.

[jj]

pastorious:

if you want to say something, just say it. just make your point, and stop complaining that no one understands you, which, by the way, in the exposition of ideas game, is your responsibility.

john jay

p.s. most of us here have outgrown the need for the pop quiz. just say what you mean. explain it, if you have to.

[pastorius]

Cornelius,
You said: There are other examples of ethnic nationalism being anything but a malevolent force. It is a phenomenon that is only as illegitimate and malevolent as the methodologies of its practitioners.

I say: If the practioners are not malevolent, then they will accept people of ethnicities other than their own, if the others are willing to live with them, right?

In Europe, for instance, Muslims resist assimilation, but other peoples do not.

For instance, Indian Hindus do not resist assimilation. But, Indian Muslims do.

So, Europe has a very good reason to keep Muslims out, but they have almost no reason to be belligerent towards their Indian Hindu population.

I'm guessing you would agree with me on this.

The thing is, I have found that when I scratch the surface of an ethnic nationalist I, almost invariably, find a person who doesn't want to live with people who are not of his own race.

Blogger is down this evening. When it is back up, I will provide some examples from my encounters with members of the BNP. Not a nice bunch.

[Another tile on the wall]

My two cents (well, four actually), mostly for Pastorius:

1: LGF has an important point. Getting rid of buffoons like Le Pen should be a high priority for any european nationalist movement that wants to be, you know like, actually successful. It would also make it morally stronger. Also, Fjordman needs to learn how to get to the point. Or he needs to start splitting up his points.

2: Pastorius: One need not be malevolent merely because one wants to live with those that share one's values and traditions. In the supposedly non-ethno-nationalist USA, people segregate with laser-like precision into various ethnic enclaves. They do this, usually not because of any malevolence towards other ethnicities, but merely because they like it that way. (Well, that, and that some ethnicities have sky-high crime rates, but let's leave that out of the picture for the moment)

That, say, Sweden does not want to become a majority hindu country is not because swedes hate hindus, but because swedes like their own way of life. Indeed, that's why we have the concept of countries (not empires, mind you), so that the various clusters of humanity called "peoples" can live out life in the fashion they prefer - one simply cannot equally sanction all ways of life within a single country. General policy has to be made. But not equally sanctioning all ways of life does not mean you have to single out some ethnicities for active persecution.

3: Very few ethnic nationalists (well, except those who are excessively enthusiastic ethnic nationalists) care much about living with behaviorally identical people of a different race. Conflict usually arises over differences in social behavior, not merely over color of skin or historical ancestry.

A lot of what anti-islamics ascribe to "Islam" is merely cultural variation among different ethnicities and cultures. Case in point: honor killings are in use among non-moslems in the middle east. But many in the US and Europe still ascribe the concept to "Islam". If I object to my non-white non-Islamic neighbor killing his daughter for family honor, that is not necessarily because I am racist.

4: You equate ethnicity with race. They overlap, but there are obvious and serious differences. Israel is, for instance, an obvious ethnostate - created for the survival of a single people. Still, as you point out, Israel accepts converts. But that doesn't mean that Israelis have abandoned the concept of the jewish people. Ask any israeli.

[Another tile on the wall]

Oh, I couldn't help but throw in a fifth (not fifty, mind you) cent:

5: The case of Belgium. The solution to Belgium is splitting it up, combined with immigration control. Not genocide of French-speakers. Or the Flemish, for that matter)

Indeed - that's one of the big boons of ethnic nationalism. Properly applied, it can help lessen ethnic hatred. The reason that the Flemish and the Walloons in Belgium don't like each other is that they are forced to share a country. If they didn't have to, they wouldn't hate each other more than the Dutch and the French do. This applies almost universally.

[jj]

another tile in on the wall: you gonna break it all up into tribal affliliation, or family groups, or credit card affinity groups, or moose lodges and rotarians? were does it all end.

at some point, cannot people be satisfied with the little countries that we have, and leave them to govern themselves.

the odd part in this, the euro union and the "inclusiveness" that it preaches and imposes, is precisely the opposite of the remedies you suggest.

pastorious:

who gets to assign the approval and the opprobrium to this ethnic grouping. i have yet to see any rational set of values assigned by you as to whether some sort of ethnic affinity or cultural cohesiveness is good, bad or indifferent, other than some sort of situation that meets your approval or opprobrium. it all seems so terribly ad hoc and ad hominum to me, sort of which way the wind blows.

john jay

[epaminondas]

Pamela,

I am not telling what to run or not run.
Clearly.
I am telling you that every time you raise it, you will raise questions in many readers, and further divisions.
Run it all you want.
I am suggesting there is little to gain.

Nationalism BTW, is not ETHNIC NATIONALISM, which you seem to have conflated in a galactic elision.

Johnjay,
Defense of culture will always ultimately resolve to RACE.
America has succeeded BECAUSE the culture never the ne plus ultra of existance, but evolves.

CofCC is defense of culture, and ethnic affinity.

Maybe that's the support base here without even knowing it?

Can that be?

You tell me.

[RISE_UP]

Wanted: Soldiers to fight Islam.Only Snowwhites need apply.

You go Pamela. While some write long winded pieces of crap, people are dying in the trenches. Give me fighters with guts not computer anchored don't have a clue windbags who will never make one smidgen of difference in Europe's survival or demise. You have stuck to your guns and by god you are absolutely right.

[Diffie]

Yes, please tell it.

Someone said, Fjordmans "essay" has not been criticized for its content. The main problem of this essay is that it calls what is real consevatism a stupid attitude and calls the pseudo-conservatism of the extrem right the real conservatism, and the second big problem is that it favours ethnonationalists. Fjordman uses as well lame arguments like communists can not critize Islam because of Stalin. Marx, Feuerbach were part of the European entlightenment and did a lot for the critic of religion. So I guess real communists must be enemies of political Islam and its oppression of the working class etc. At the same time F. says no word about the Christian tradition, in which he, probably, sees a good partner. From his logic one has to conclude that because of the murderous tradition Christianity / the Christian Church(es) can be no parthner in the fight against islamists. On the other hand every partner shall be allright unless he is against Islam, but some (very few?) communists, who are as well, can not come into consideration. I can not understand this. Fjordman is sp to speak an cyclops, who has an ultrabig left eye with which he can look into and through the darkest corners on the left side, but who has no right one and can therefore see nothing of what happens on the right side. So he thinks the world is threatend from specific leftists and their specific muslim friends alone.

And to all the experts of Islam-Nazi-connection: study some Christian-Nazi-connection. In nuce the belt buckle of the soldiers of the Wehrmacht contains an important aspect of the Christian part of 19th/20th century german (ethnic) nationalism and antisemitism: the swastika-eagle, bordered by "god with us" (Gott mit uns) (=> http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Heer/photos/H013759full.jpg ). Read Hitler's speeches as well, who was a Christian antisemit. And, please, stop mistaking peoplel who criticize a false critic of Islam for idiots that have no clue of the dangers of political Islam.

When F. says, the black block is hunting and beating people and that it is a hord of rednazis everybody joins in. When neonazis hunt and even kill people regularly some guy came with Chicago gang killing. What a counterargument, what an excuse of neonazis. Today's nazi victims must be the real colleteral damage, because some naive people think they need nazis in their coalition. Honor killing is indeed a real and spreading problem (besides arranged marriages in arab-muslim countries etc.) and nowhere I said it would not be a problem. And to sheik: especially Germans and Aussies have no G-d-given right to defend their traditions; it should be their duty to reflect on them and break with them.

[Underzog]

Rise up is correct! That's another thing that bothers me about the arrogance of the Johnson and his ilk. We need people to march and risk their necks as Pamela has done and I have done as reported by Atlas Shrugs: http://tinyurl.com/6ltuxe

And as for that Spamorofus fellow, defense of culture always turns into defense of race? Says who? You? Is this what you sycophantics at Little Green Footballs believe?

The official Underzog website: http://tinyurl.com/56bffa