EURABIA:Death [Seig Heil] to Germany

You’re kidding me right? Germany going after American Heros?
The retired operators of Treblinka, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Dachau… are taking OUR folks to court about prison abuses?

Hugh writes, " Death to Germany!   Kill them all.  Better yet, let the Islamofascists kill them while we sit back and laugh.  TIME MAGAZINE piece here."

This is so outrageous it is beyond belief!  Fine, let's close all our bases in Germany and bring our troops home. And this is who the Demoncrats would have us kiss up. Ally, my ass.

Just days after his resignation, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is about to face more repercussions for his involvement in the troubled wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. New legal documents, to be filed next week with Germany's top prosecutor, will seek a criminal investigation and prosecution of Rumsfeld, along with Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, former CIA director George Tenet and other senior U.S. civilian and military officers, for their alleged roles in abuses committed at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison and at the U.S. detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The plaintiffs in the case include 11 Iraqis who were prisoners at Abu Ghraib, as well as Mohammad al-Qahtani, a Saudi held at Guantanamo, whom the U.S. has identified as the so-called "20th hijacker" and a would-be participant in the 9/11 hijackings. As TIME first reported in June 2005, Qahtani underwent a "special interrogation plan," personally approved by Rumsfeld, which the U.S. says produced valuable intelligence. But to obtain it, according to the log of his interrogation and government reports, Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation and other controversial interrogation techniques.

Lawyers for the plaintiffs say that one of the witnesses who will testify on their behalf is former Brig. Gen. Janis Karpinski, the one-time commander of all U.S. military prisons in Iraq. Karpinski — who the lawyers say will be in Germany next week to publicly address her accusations in the case — has issued a written statement to accompany the legal filing, which says, in part: "It was clear the knowledge and responsibility [for what happened at Abu Ghraib] goes all the way to the top of the chain of command to the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld ."

A spokesperson for the Pentagon told TIME there would be no comment since the case has not yet been filed.

Along with Rumsfeld, Gonzales and Tenet, the other defendants in the case are Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone; former assistant attorney general Jay Bybee; former deputy assisant attorney general John Yoo; General Counsel for the Department of Defense William James Haynes II; and David S. Addington, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff. Senior military officers named in the filing are General Ricardo Sanchez, the former top Army official in Iraq; Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of Guantanamo; senior Iraq commander, Major General Walter Wojdakowski; and Col. Thomas Pappas, the one-time head of military intelligence at Abu Ghraib.

Germany was chosen for the court filing because German law provides "universal jurisdiction" allowing for the prosecution of war crimes and related offenses that take place anywhere in the world. Indeed, a similar, but narrower, legal action was brought in Germany in 2004, which also sought the prosecution of Rumsfeld. The case provoked an angry response from Pentagon, and Rumsfeld himself was reportedly upset. Rumsfeld's spokesman at the time, Lawrence DiRita, called the case a "a big, big problem." U.S. officials made clear the case could adversely impact U.S.-Germany relations, and Rumsfeld indicated he would not attend a major security conference in Munich, where he was scheduled to be the keynote speaker, unless Germany disposed of the case. The day before the conference, a German prosecutor announced he would not pursue the matter, saying there was no indication that U.S. authorities and courts would not deal with allegations in the complaint.

In bringing the new case, however, the plaintiffs argue that circumstances have changed in two important ways. Rumsfeld's resignation, they say, means that the former Defense Secretary will lose the legal immunity usually accorded high government officials. Moreover, the plaintiffs argue that the German prosecutor's reasoning for rejecting the previous case — that U.S. authorities were dealing with the issue — has been proven wrong.

"The utter and complete failure of U.S. authorities to take any action to investigate high-level involvement in the torture program could not be clearer," says Michael Ratner, president of the Center for Constitutional Rights, a U.S.-based non-profit helping to bring the legal action in Germany. He also notes that the Military Commissions Act, a law passed by Congress earlier this year, effectively blocks prosecution in the U.S. of those involved in detention and interrogation abuses of foreigners held abroad in American custody going to back to Sept. 11, 2001. As a result, Ratner contends, the legal arguments underlying the German prosecutor's previous inaction no longer hold up.

UPDATE: Headline updated for the nuanced challenged

UPDATE: More bad news from Germany - "Sieg Heil";

German neo-Nazis wearing Palestinian scarves hat tip

Jewish Memorial Attacked Reuters

BERLIN (Reuters) - German neo-Nazis, some shouting "Sieg Heil," rampaged in the eastern city of Frankfurt on Oder and destroyed wreaths placed to mark the anniversary of the 1938 Nazi pogrom against the Jews, police said on Friday.

A police spokeswoman said the group had launched an attack on Thursday evening, shortly after a memorial service by community and Jewish leaders at a monument for a destroyed synagogue.

The neo-Nazis trampled floral wreaths placed at a memorial stone to the synagogue in the city on the Polish border that was destroyed 68 years ago in the Nazis' Kristallnacht, or "Night of Broken Glass," police said.

They threw away candles left at the memorial ceremony, which had been attended by about 200 people. When police arrived, some of the neo-Nazis shouted "Sieg Heil."

One eyewitness was quoted in a media report as saying he saw three of the neo-Nazis urinating on the memorial stone.

"I'm horrified," said Matthias Platzeck, premier of Brandenburg, the state where the incident took place.

"It is a provocation beyond all bearing. Anyone who attacks flowers and candles for the millions of Holocaust victims hasn't learned a thing about the greatest disaster in German history."

LGF has more on the Neo love affair;

The Neo-Nazi Radical Islamic Convergence

Hatred is drawn to hatred:

German neo-Nazis wearing Palestinian scarves.

Swedish neo-Nazis wearing Palestinian scarves.

UPDATE at 11/11/06 8:39:43 am:

Howard Dean wearing a Palestinian scarf.

 

Whatever the legal merits of the case, it is the latest example of efforts in Western Europe by critics of U.S. tactics in the war on terror to call those involved to account in court. In Germany, investigations are under way in parliament concerning cooperation between the CIA and German intelligence on rendition — the kidnapping of suspected terrorists and their removal to third countries for interrogation. Other legal inquiries involving rendition are under way in both Italy and Spain.

U.S. officials have long feared that legal proceedings against "war criminals" could be used to settle political scores. In 1998, for example, former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet — whose military coup was supported by the Nixon administration — was arrested in the U.K. and held for 16 months in an extradition battle led by a Spanish magistrate seeking to charge him with war crimes. He was ultimately released and returned to Chile. More recently, a Belgian court tried to bring charges against then Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon for alleged crimes against Palestinians.

For its part, the Bush Administration has rejected adherence to the International Criminal Court (ICC) on grounds that it could be used to unjustly prosecute U.S. officials. The ICC is the first permanent tribunal established to prosecute war crimes, genocide and other crimes against humanity.

Comments

[Atlas Shrugs -- Free Speech Comments]

Pamela,

I write as one of your biggest fans, but I think you should take a little break in the post-election. You're obviously working very hard and it shows, but there have been some slips lately...

forgetting your laptop...
denouncing halloween as antisemitic...
that anti-arab racism in the chafee post...
and now, calling for the destruction of germany?!?!?!?!

didn't alqueda call for that reecently too?

please, we care about you. you deserve some rest.

[upyernoz]

no robert4, pam is right. we never should have imposed a democratic constitution and independent judiciary on germany! spreading democracy is all well and good, but if they dare to dislike our leaders, well, that's just going too far!!!

[x_dhimmi]

Germany hasn't stooped to accepting this suit yet. I'm sure back channels are strongly advising against it. My fingers are crossed, anyway. Germany needs to carefully consider all the consequences. "Death" in the economic sector is something they can ill afford -- even a bad case of the flu would severely distress.

OTOH, I would not mind seeing sweat Janis Karpinski a little. Can't determine if she is a hostile or co-operating potential witness. If hostile, then I'll cut her some slack.

Pamela, I agree w/Robert (for the most part -- might quibble w/the racism charge). Hope you can slow down some. Your focused efforts will be in demand for a long time. I appreciate your energy & don't want to see you burned out. --Deb

[x_dhimmi]

It should be noted above that Pamela was quoting Hugh. What PAMELA wrote was "Fine, let's close all our bases in Germany and bring our troops home."

[John D. Infidel]

I agree, we must pull all our military assets out of Germany. This is long overdue. We should also get out of NATO. NATO was a cold war entity and is of little use now. Yes, NATO is in Afganistan, but the European nations can send their armies at their own expense and not with our backing. It is time for Europe to defend itself.

[Karen]

This isn't the first time the Muslims in Germany have tried this. I believe it was thrown out of a German court last time... yeah, think that's right.

It is troubling that the Germans have become so dhimmified that they would alow this in the first place though. Add this to the list of their mistakes.

[Atlas Shrugs -- Free Speech Comments]

x_dhimmi, Good point, but "Death to Germany" is the title of the post. Even the New York Slimes doesn't have "Death to America" as the headline for its puff pieces of Osoma as 'freedom fighter" (barf)

[steve expat]

Who better to recognize a war criminal than Germany? And "Death to Germany"? If someone said "Death to America" or, heaven forbid, "Death to Israel" we all know how you'd react. Try to at least pretend to keep your hypocricy in check.

[gmee]

Well, let's not tar all of German thought with the actions of a few terrorist apologists. I'm sure there are a few Germans who, when all is said and done, appreciate the US and think the trial is silly. Maybe even most Germans. It's just the loonies who get all the press.

Marketing 101: Pam didn't say "Death to Germany," Hugh did. But the headline *guaranteed* that you'd read her post, right?

Pam clarified it immediately. Of course, when the Times does a headline like this, or an apology, they don't post a clarification until paragraph 20.

[Atlas Shrugs -- Free Speech Comments]

gmee, note even the new york slimy waste of times would print a headline like that. if you can find one example of the flagship of liberalism running a headline that said only "death to america", i'll eat my hat.

[Atlas Shrugs -- Free Speech Comments]

also, gmee, pam never really clarified it, she restated it in a milder form but she never refuted it, never said that germany shouldn't be destroyed. this is why she should consider taking a break, so the great old blog will come back again.

[clyde]

I see Rumsfeld telling the Germans to kiss his ass. Like the descendents of Nazi Germany have moral authority on ANYTHING?

Damn.

[Grey Archer]

Clyde,

I agree, he may tell them that but alas; Germany's history is not at the core or prime mover of this event. The prime mover for this event bears little resemblance to the former Nazi state. Someone should put a tent over this idiotic case and call it what it is replete with clowns and dancing bears.

Steve, shhhh...the adults are talking. ;)

[Indigo Red]

Nothing will come of this. Germany is posturing and still pissed for being named to the Axis of Old Europe by Rumsfeld.

It's interesting that lopping off hands and feet, killing the children of "the usual suspect", mock executions, beatings until the intestines spew from the rectum, pulling out fingernails, electrodes attached to genitalia and the power turned up (that last one, Kerry claims Americans did in VietNam), and other barbarities reminiscent of JenJess Khan are not considered torture for puposes of the indictment against that meeny Rumsfeld.

Well, my goodness! "Qahtani was subjected to forced nudity, sexual humiliation, religious humiliation, prolonged stress positions, sleep deprivation..." That's sounds like normal life in my house!

[steve expat]

Indigo Red,
Did you also kill a guy you were torturing after causing severe crush injuries to his body, then put him in ice for several days while you tried to cover it up? Would that be normal in your house? Really, I could go on, but I'll let the actual investigation of the atrocities for which Bush and Rumsfeld are responsible bring it out instead.

[yonason]

"You're kidding me right? Germany going after American Heros?
The retired operators of Treblinka, Auschwitz-Birkenau, Dachau… are taking OUR folks to court about prison abuses?"

I heard it on the news earlier today and had the same reaction. They have their nerve!

Defeating the Islmofascits should be a walk-in-the-park if everyone was on board, but when half the country, and most of the world is OTL, we can expect it to be painful and to take quite a lot longer than it should.

[Go Spencer!]

The world has gone topsy turvy... I cannot believe how completely stupid the western leaders are, - leading the west down the shitter by their traitorous policies.

[BillBowen]

Go Spencer, you took the words right out of my mouth! There are times I think I've been transported into a "Twilight Zone" episode.

x_dhimmi, I think the issue for Janis Karpinski is that she believes she was made a scapegoat, and that may well be true. This is her way of extracting revenge. One thing I have noted in a lot of the back draft from the prison abuse stories is regular Army folks get cut slack but the Guard & Reserve folks are getting fried (if memory serves, Karpinski was a General in the NG).

Unfortunately that seems to be SOP in the services in general, not just in Iraq. And don't even get me started on the JAG OFFS. When I was a kid in the '50s living back East the most rank insult you could lay on someone was to call them a Jagoff - as bad or worse than using the "n" word. Why? Because the grunts in WWII had nothing but contempt for the JAG Corps - whose main job seemed to be to use enlisted folks to cover the posterior of the officers (of course in general I thinks lawyers are a low form of life but that is another issue). It is so bloody easy for some tassle-loafer hot shot JAG OFF 8K miles away second-guessing split second decisions made in the heat of battle. Our cops now days face a similar situation (witness the gang banger incident in LA a few days ago). Maybe it is about time to take those JAGs, stick an M-16 in their hands and have them do street patrol in Sader City for a couple of days. Just might give them a bit of an attitude adjustment.

Rush Limbaugh got right to the bottom of this Friday - this whole Rumsfeld issue is the opening slavo of the international Left to try and make it impossible for the US to ever challenge an enemy militarily. If you want to read (or hear) this piece, go to www.rushlimbaugh.com and scroll down until you see the pix of Rumsfeld and click on the line labeled "Germany, yes Germany, to indict Rumsfeld for war crimes...".

[Jeremiah]

HEY! NO SALT ON PAMELA'S TAIL!

11/7 was a disaster - a little like 7/7, 3/11 and 9/11 - and a self-inflicted one at that, which makes it more pathetic. In the past few days I've already tried to start a pro-Bolton email thread; reported a potentially embarrassing statement by Jerry Brown: and was a warm body at a pro-Israel demonstration in Baghdad By the Bay (i.e., San Francisco). Come out swinging and guns blazing!

The Left is SWARMING IN FOR THE KILL! They want to tear out the Bush Admnistration's 'nads. We counterjihadists are in a kind of civil war against them. We have to crush them in civil society (lawsuits, elections, public relations, etc.) so we can maintain our liberty to exercise any military option we see fit to preserve and extend democratic capitalist societies.

NO SALT ON PAMELA'S TAIL, NO SALT ON MY TAIL, NO SALT ON ANYBODY'S TAIL!!!

Get busy, folks!

[Jorg-AtlanticReview]

The German prosecutors have not made any decision. whether Rumsfeld shall be investigated or not.

The plaintiffs are Iraqis, not Germans. The plaintiffs are supported by an American NGO, not a German NGO. They WANT to have a criminal investigation in Germany, but it is doubtful whether they will get one.

They have not even contacted the German prosecutors yet. They have just issued a press release, picked up by TIME magazine. That's all that happened, but the American blogosphere goes ballistic and blames Germany, although Germany has not done anything. Crazy.
Apparently, many American bloggers are so convinced that Germans are Anti-American that they can't see straight anymore.

German prosecutors have dismissed similar cases in the past.

This is explained in more detail in the Atlantic Review, which is edited by three German Fulbright Alumni.

[Thomas Carney]

Former Brigadier General Janis Karpinski is a loser... she was saying all along, "...I'm not responsible for this...." well WHO IS THEN IF NOT THE COMMANDER??? Commanders are held responsible for troops' actions.

If the Left is "holding" Rummy, Gonzalez and others "responsible", who will hold the Muslims responsible??? Certainly not ANY EUROPEAN COUNTRY, for that matter.

[BlueRacer]

Why? Because the whole lot of them have committed war crimes. The policies that allowed those crimes at Abu Ghirab came from the Defense Department as well as the DOJ. Donald "Slap Happy" Rumsfeld with the legal "go ahead" from Al Gonzales briefed the independent contractors that were doing the interrogation's at the prison and told them these techniques (Sexual abuse/humiliation, dog attack threats, severe beatings, thrashing within inches of lives ect.) were not only acceptable, but encouraged. Thus, the lower ranking officers and soldiers that were in charge of guarding the prisoners at AG were indirectly informed of the "special treatment", or fucking torture to anyone with half a brain, was to be the new "war on terror" standard procedure for detainees. So yeh they(Rummy's Bunch) are fucking war criminals. History will judge them even if a court never does. You'll see, and you people (jihadoslobs or shrilly Mc'war shrills) will be compared to Nazi sympathizers. Good luck with that.

[tb]

The Left is SWARMING IN FOR THE KILL! They want to tear out the Bush Admnistration's 'nads.

Nice to see you all keeping your heads during a crisis.