Howard Dean: Slap that Bitch!

Bitchslap Howard Dean who said in a San Antonio radio show intervieww today "the idea that we're going to win the war in Iraq is an idea which is just plain wrong.”

We done won it already, loser.
27 million free Iraqis, 9,000 whining murderers. With friends like you those murderers can't help but lose. Traitor -Atlas

Astute Pundit fisks Dean here, go now

My man Rocco does a number over at the American Thinker

Howard Dean partially resurrected the rotting corpse of the 1960s. By saying that America cannot win in Iraq, even though indications are that it is winning in Iraq, he spit on its soldiers, on its President and on its patriots. He also gave America’s enemies hope during this time of war.Democratic Party Chairman Dean now joins the growing list of traitorous leftists and un-Americans that call his Party home.

Photo:www.digitalbrownshirt.blogspot.com/

UPDATE: Hey guys, its a joke. Helllllllllllllllllllllo, its F-U-N-N-Y (even if Dean's remarks were far from funny, futile maybe, treasonous maybe, stupid for sure,  humorous - not).
Actually, the pic is  hysterical. I never said he was Hitler, never even called him a Nazi. A clown for sure. That's a clown pic - this is a clown pic too.
Conversely, when the left calls Bush  Hitler, they are dead serious. You can not compare the two. The above picture is hysterical. You clowns are as bad as the one in the picture. Sheesh.

UPDATE: Another great patriot speaks.
All hail Ted "not to worry I can swim" Kennedy's successor ChuckiE Schumer:

Chuck Schumer: U.S. 'Imposing' Elections on Iraq

Sen. Charles Schumer is predicting failure for Iraq's democratically-elected government, complaining that the vote next week to determine the country's new parliament is being "imposed" on the Iraqi people by the U.S.

"There will be no government in Iraq the way they're trying to structure it now," the New York Democrat told WABC-TV's "Behind the News" on Sunday. "They're going to have these elections but that's sort of being imposed on them." [genius- Atlas]

Schumer questioned the legitimacy of the Iraqi vote despite sky-high turnouts for the country's January and October elections, which saw a higher percentage of voter participation than in U.S. elections.

Hey Chuckie, your new talking points just arrived via video here

My peeps speak, love these guys;

There is no option other than victory. You need to get out and read what our enemies have said ... Their goal is to destroy our way of life."
(12/01/2005) Gen. Peter Pace, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of StaffIf we withdraw prematurely from Iraq, there will be civil war, and there is a great probability that others in the neighborhood will come in."
(11/15/2005) Sen. Joseph Lieberman, U.S. Senate, (D-CT)

Demonstrating the will to lose as clearly as America did in Vietnam wasn't such a smart move, but since the media can't seem to get beyond this ancient jungle war it may be worth underlining the principal difference: Osama is not Ho Chi Minh, and al-Qa'eda are not the Viet Cong. If you exit, they'll follow. And Americans will die - in foreign embassies, barracks, warships, as they did through the Nineties, and eventually on the streets of US cities, too."
(11/22/2005) Mark Steyn, Syndicated Columnist

Truth or Consequences
If the war is to be lost, it will be a collapse of stateside civilian morale that loses it. Everything else is secondary.  David Tell

From the Seraphic Press

Rule # 1 of Peace Movements: They cannot imagine nor confront evil.
Rule # 2 of Peace Movements: They do not care about history.
Rule # 3 of Peace Movements: They are always secretly financed and penetrated by the enemy. hat tip yahoo

Bah dah bing, Bah dah boom

UPDATE: He's French! Country of  Origin, incorrect after all. I defer to the New York Post

The New York Post's French Kiss Off for le chump:

Howard Dean sounded like a big French surrender monkey when he said America can't win the war in Iraq.
So The Post raced into action to show the Democratic Party chairman what he can do with his yellow-bellied sentiments.
We put together a heartfelt care package (above) containing everything Dean needs to transform into a fell fledged weasel and we delivered it care of the state Democratic Party's headquarters on Madison Avenue, where the package was accepted.                          Bill Hoffman

Yeah that works, it's funny and true.

UPDATE: December 9th.  This just keeps getting better and better.

                      Retreat and Defeat, Watch the Video here

UPDATE: Rich really rich...........played the White Flag ad, and now you can watch it too.

Bush rejects Iraq timetable, Republicans assail critics
Reuters via Yahoo! NewsPresident George W. Bush on Friday forcefully rejected a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq as his Republican Party assailed Democratic critics with an ad using the white flag of surrender.

UPDATE DECEMBER 13TH:

"The Democratic Party's national leadership has plumbed a record depth in its search to score points against the Republicans. In the past week and a half, both House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean have called for the United States to surrender in Iraq. Not since George McGovern in 1972 has one party called for the United States military to surrender to an enemy during wartime.

Some will object to the word, 'surrender' but there is no other word to describe the immediate withdrawal of troops from the war zone in Iraq. The simple fact is that two of the nation's three highest-ranking Democrats are advocating an enemy victory over U.S. forces in a foreign land. That not only is appalling in its contempt for the troops who have died to liberate Iraq, it is astonishing in its brazen disregard for the lives and well-being of the Iraqi people." -- editorial, New Hampshire Union-Leader hat tip WSJ Political Journal

Even traditionally leftwing outlets think he is a maniac... that is one wild and crazy guy.

 

Comments

[Matt]

Shiite Death Squads
No Electricity
Renegade Contractors
Prison Abuse
No Potable Water
Country on The Verge of Civil War
We Darn Sure Won the War,
But We're Blowing The Peace.

[seeteeare]

Oh, we did? And where did you come up with that bit of information? Did MadDick Cheney tell you so when you were all squeezed up close? What a sorry excuse for rational thought you are.

Oh, yeah. Just saw this and thought you would be interested:

JERUSALEM - Former Prime Minister Benjamin NutAndYahoo said in remarks published Monday that he would support a pre-emptive strike against Iran’s nuclear program.

So, let's get that on the site ASAP. Nukes in the Middle East. Crazies on the loose. NutAndYahoo posturing. And he is supposed to be sane?

seeteeare

[wxjames]

Go Beebee, hit the scum while they kneel facing Mecca with their balls in their hands.
Beebee gets my vote. And the leftists commenting here, posturing as intellectuals get my finger in the eye.

[jurassicpork]

And how'd we do that, stupid?

I cannot believe that you clowns are in line for a Weblog Award.

[Huan]

1. while Iraq is a far cry from the stability of the US, the war and peace in Iraq is largely already won.
2. iraq economy expanded by 50%. yes, that was off a low base post invasion, but it is indeed growing. and individual income has as well since the invasion. they have shifted from a state economy to a free market economy.
3. Iraqi health care system is being rebuilt, from an an abc article in 2004:

The pre-1990 Iraqi health-care infrastructure was first-rate. A decade of neglect — and international sanctions — left the system in shambles.
By the time the war started, few, if any, essential medical services were available. The invasion taxed the system even further as casualties skyrocketed.

Today, the United Nations, the coalition authorities and various NGOs report across-the-board improvements in emergency medicine. The nation is not yet near the pre-1990 levels of care, but certainly beyond the levels seen prior to the war.

In addition, in 2002 Saddam but 16 millions into the system, the latest budget has 950 million
4. There are little stats in terms of national crime rate for Iraq, but here is the latest figures from Najaf

Crime rate dropped by 90% in the holy city of Najaf in June and August compared with the same months last year, Najaf’s governor, Asaad Abukalal said.

5. Dispelling the Myths about Iraq

[Huan]

btw,
"links" = the difference between responsible posting and ignorant rantings.

[C Max]

Seeteearen't:

The thing about the Shiites and Kurds is that they haven't unleashed mass reprisals against the Sunnis and in particular the Tikritis who ruled them so cruelly for so long.

By the way, why is it that our enemies are always referred to as "militias," "rebels," or "insurgents," while groups we support are invariably guilty of employing "death squads?" If the "insurgents" aren't "death squads," what are they?

Iraq's infrastructure, including the power grid, is also better off than it was before the war -- except for sabotage, which is hardly a winning tactic for the "insurgents." Large areas of the country are getting electric power for the first time.

Also, from what I can see, swift action has been taken regarding contractors who have engaged in profiteering over in Iraq. So far, there's been no evidence that anybody in the Bush administration benefited.

Another question. Why is it that liberals never get upset with "renegade contractors" when they're passing out free condoms, or doing grief counseling, or researching reactions to gay pornography, or tunneling under the city of Boston, or doing any of the other superfluous things our government has been caught paying crooked contractors to do in the past?

The Iraqis I've heard think Abu Ghraib is something of a joke; though they are impressed that something so ridiculous could qualify as "torture" to Americans. Having heard testimony in the Saddam trial today from a witness who lost most of his family to Saddam and saw evidence of people being put through meatgrinders, it's no wonder.

The fresh water delivery system has never been adequate. We have been making improvements -- in between repairing more sabotage.

Also, I hardly think the place is on the verge of civil war. And if civil war happens after we leave, so what? If it takes a Saddam Hussein to keep "Iraq" in existence, then perhaps Iraq should cease to exist.

That doesn't make what we did there a failure in any sense of the word. Failure would have been to depose Saddam and leave nothing in his place.

[Huan]

"We were not strong enough to drive out a half-million American troops, but that wasn't our aim. Our intention was to break the will of the American government to continue the war." --North Vietnamese General Vo Nguyen Giap, in a 1990 interview with historian Stanley Karnow

[Craig]

Howard Dean.....I can still hear his bitch cry....Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghaaa!

[C Max]

Question: I heard al Qaeda's number three guy was killed by an unmanned predator drone in Waziristan.

But John Kerry's been in Washington the whole time.

I don't get it?

[Kevin Mark Smith]

Dean should talk to the troops in Iraq before opening his pie hole. We are winning the war. 2k dead soldiers is tragic, but it pales in comparison to the casualty rates in other wars, even the ones America won hands down. Indeed, most major battles in which Americans fought resulted in more dead Americans than both Iraqi conflicts.

Those who fail to read their history books are doomed to idiocy, and are most likely Democrats.

[lowandslow]

I must tell you Pamela, you must be doing something right. If all these trolls feel they have to come and post here you evidently must be striking some kind of nerve.
I for one wouldn't even consider wasting more then five minutes of my time reading some of the LLL blogs and I sure as hell wouldn't spend hours composing ludicrous comments trying to pass myself off as some sort of intellectual.
Just reading Haun's and C Max's comments on this thread makes your "progressive" posters look like a bunch of clueless high school students.

[Carol]

Harold Dean's comments, along with John Kerry's on Face The Nation yesterday are sadly indicative of people who would sell their country for a few more minutes of political power or fame. They contradict themselves repeatedly.

[mark]

Tired of hearing how well things are going and that the troops are making progress? Don’t worry, just tune and pull out. Top democrat dog, Screamin’ Dean has some words of hope to your favorite jihadist troops. The US is a bunch of worn out losers and we won’t win in Iraq.

[neverforget]

lowandslow:

"Just reading Haun's and C Max's comments on this thread makes your "progressive" posters look like a bunch of clueless high school students."

They are...even if they aren't.

Smart poster from www.lucianne.com:

"You cannot say you support the troops while alleging they are engaging in an immoral, illegal war. You are forcing them into a moral crisis that for some will cause long term, mental health problems."

Nor can you say you support the the troops when you call them losers or terrorists. Then say, "Oops, I meant their Commander-in-Chief, or their Secretary of Defense, or their Vice-President."

[ruudgrl]

Kevin - I assume by your use of the term "most major battles" (for which you actually mean conflict/war, a battle is an isolated incident) you are referring to Vietnam. Vietnam is really the only modern "conflict" that seems to relate to Iraq (guerrila war fought, mainly, by insurgents supplied and re-enforced by outside factions). You are sooooo wrong to equate Vietnam to Iraq but I'll address that later in the thread. Proceeding on your supposition -

In reading those "history" books of yours did they not show that for the first 2 1/2 years we were in Vietnam the [causalty rates in Vietnam http://www.lies.com/wp/2003/10/20/us-deaths-in-vietnam-and-iraq-by-month/] are actually much lower then where we are today in Iraq? (links for Huan)

That the real casulties, in Vietnam, started about 3-3 1/2 years into the conflict and is disturbingly similar to where we are in Iraq today. Just ask [Chuck Hagel (r - Neb.) http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/18/hagel.iraq/] (links for Huan)

But I digress, let's get back to the present. Kevin, as a student of history I'm sure it would be no problem for you to identify the first [democratic elections held in the Middle East and the outcome of that election? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mossadeq] (links for Huan)

You are quite right to assume that those that do not understand the past are doomed to repeat it. The problem is that our American foreign policy makers are "those that are doomed" right now. And for those, other then Kevin, that may not understand the recent history of the Middle East.

In 1951 Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh was appointed Prime Minister of Iran by the Shah. Dr. Mossadegh quickly gained power and threatened the Shah with nationalizing Iranian oil interests, while thumbing his nose at the British that controlled the oil under the Shah. The Shah deposed Dr. Mossadegh. The Iranian parliament, and the people of Iran, rioted. The parliament re-appointed Dr. Mossadegh in a national referendum and the Shah had to flee Iran or risk being killed.

In 1953 the Shah took back power in an English and American led milattary coup, they couldn't let the Iranians control there own oil, in which Dr. Mossadegh was killed and the Shah regained control for the next 26 years. We all know the backlash of the Shah's western supported rule, [a theocratic fundamental state whos main purpose was to destroy any western influence. http://www.time.com/time/time100/leaders/profile/khomeini2.html]

So what is the moral to this story? If ya invade a country, that you really don't understand the culture of, to impose a western style democracy, on a society that really doesn't get it, or want it [(80% of Iraqi's want the U.S. out KNOW, 45% believe that it is just OKEY DOKEY to kill U.S. soldiers http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-poll-cover_x.htm] - link for Huan) ya might get what you want for a little while but, eventually, the shit's gonna hit the fan.

Sen. Chuck Hagel (r-Neb.) and all the others that equate Iraq to Vietnam are dead wrong. Iraq is going to become another Iran, as the history of our conflicts in the Middle East bears out. It may not happen tomorrow, next week, next year, or the next decade, but the only eventual, realistic, and historical precedence says that there will be a backlash to our occupation.

My proof is in the links for Huan. Where is your proof that you can ever create a democracy in the Middle East under boot, bomb, and gun? Other then some Heritage Foundation thought experiment? So wher's the proof that this "noble cause", this grandiose neo-con idea, has ever worked? Will ever work?

What does Don Rumsfeld call his ideas? Oh yeah, snowflakes. You know those little crystalline ice structures that are so fragile they eventually turn into a puddle, if they don't evaporate first.

Huan - links are like trolling the bars at closing time, ya can always go home with one, no matter how drunk or ugly they may be.

[wxjames]

ruudgrl is a yellow, passivist coward. Run, girl run. You have no honor, so you have nothing to lose. Run away. WW3 will not run away from you, so you must run from it. Of course, you can always hide.....under a burka.

[johnnymozart]

Where is your proof that you can ever create a democracy in the Middle East under boot, bomb, and gun?

(rolls eyes)

Japan, Germany, Korea, Italy, Panama, Afghanistan.......

Perhaps you should spend less time being "ruud" and more time "paying attention".

[C Max]

I'm still trying to figure out how Iraq is anything like Vietnam. Vietnam never even approached the stage we reached three weeks into the Iraq war, because we never controlled the entire country. Vietnam did develop into a guerilla war' but that only happened because, after the Tet Offensive, the NVA were virtually finished as a fighting force and the VC were all that was left. Nonetheless, Cronkite predictably insisted we'd "lost" Tet, and he doubted we could win the war.

Iraq and Vietnam are similar only in the pissing and moaning imaginations of the left, the fifth column, the useful idiots, and the MSM. No war could be won under such leadership, because the enemy always holds out hope that we will eventually cut and run.

By the way, anybody remember who the first legislator was to "stand up" and demand that we cut and run from Somalia? Why it was our friend Murtha. In Usama's own words, that ignominious retreat convinced him that an attack the size of 9/11 would cause us to abandon the middle east for good -- leaving he and his pals to take over and get ready for the REAL fireworks.

Only George Bush kept that from happening, as I suspect cutting and running is precisely what President Gore would have done.

The Murtha story shows how liberals have learned absolutely NOTHING from the tragedy of September 11. They have literally come full circle and put their heads back up their rears for a second time, demanding that we eschew success in Iraq in exchange for the same old strategy that culminated in our being attacked in the first place.

[Gryn]

You Republicans sure are classy!

I can't understand why the country is turning against you guys with delicate cogent arguments like these.

[redrichie]

You guys are real tough warriors, no doubt about that. Can't wait to see you in uniform - or will the fact that Halliburton hasn't wanted to cut profit margins by supplying body armor keeping you at the keyboard instead?
Murtha, FYI, is the chosen mouthpiece of the Pentagon brass, who realize Rumsfeld is a whack job but can't speak out directly for fear of losing their jobs (and by extension, what's left of our military forces).

[wxjames]

The country is driven by Cindy Sheehan. We republicans haven't got a chance....until election day.
You dheminnocrats are sure simple minded. You make up the news and then believe it. Then, you take a phony poll and declare victory. The only thing missing is reality.
But don't worry, when the train of life is leaving you behind at the station of stupidity, I'll fart in your general direction.

[Craig]

Redrichie,
WTF?

I work with the Pentagon, can I have some of what you're smoking?

[Mean Gene]

From neverforget: "Smart poster from www.lucianne.com:"

Now THERE'S an oxymoron. That acutally made me laugh out loud.

The idea that you can't support the troops while decrying the leadership that led them in war is asinine. Even if we ignore the whole "Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld Lied" aspect of the Iraq War, one cannot say this conflict has been well-managed. Just because Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld are incompetent, arrogant, and inflexibile does not make them criminal (again, we're ignoring that part of the debate). We've lost over 2,000 troops. Over 15,000 wounded. We're nowhere near declaring victory because even the President can't define what "victory" means. This war is a complete mess, and threatens to get far, far messier.

So, criticism is deserved. Harsh, scathing criticism. To say that criticising those leading the war means by definition you're criticising the troops is childish. We can applaud the skill, dedication and heartbreaking sacrifice of those in Iraq and Afghanistan while correctly pointing out the seemingly endless failings of the political masters who put them there. To argue otherwise infantilizes our soldiers into mindless dupes who actions are solely at the whim of their "betters".

I reject that outright. Our soldiers are doing a most difficult job, and for the most part they're doing it well. They deserve the credit for their good works and sacrifice. The Bush Administration is doing a most difficult job, and doing it as poorly as one could imagine. They richly deserve the criticism they've receieved.

[David (Austin Tx)]

Such class. I am sure no one here was offended by the same comparisons of Bush to Hitler, were they.

I thought not.

[gary boldeau]

Oh yeah, medical care in Iraq is so much better now without clean water or electricity. At least we're "winning." Ten marines killed? Don't worry, we're "winning." Another failed state, a breeding ground for terrorists, a handmaiden state to neighboring Iran? Don't worry, we're "winning."

[Joseph]

God how dare he have a different opionion then you.
Is winning in Iraq really about "freedom" and "democracy", c'mon. Lets not be naive. It's about oil and the control of it. We can't control it so we have lost. We will not be able to gain control of it. The Kurds run it in the north and the Shia in the south. We will buy it from them which is a decent set up but not what was in mind when we installed a goverment. I mean really, what the hell do we care if they have health care? Education? Electricity? Elections? Thats all window dressing. We can't win unless we control oil and we have not been able to gain control in 3 years. It's not about republican or democrat, it's about facing up to the situation and calling a spade a spade.

[ch2]

You're insane.

[JR]

Hey, you beautiful Pamela, you!! You'd look great in uniform!! Why don't you enlist? Then when we're supporting our troops, we'd be supporting you!!! - your fan-

[Some Guy]

You guys sure do whip out the Hitler Photoshop template pretty fast, considering how you guys exploded about that MoveOn.org ad submission; you know, the one that even MoveOn.org agreed was out of line and pulled from their site? Not that you guys would ever notice (or apply the same rules to yourselves).

Here's a clue as to why claiming Dean has any Hitlerian qualities is disingenuous at best and idiotic on it's face: Hitler held office and actually controlled a government. Thanks for self-labelling yourselves as complete morons with absolutely no grasp of history and a demonstrated deficiency in drawing functional analogies. I hear ignorance is bliss, so I'm glad that, if anything, you appear to be very very happy, indeed.

You probably think that fascists and communists are the same thing, which they aren't. Not that I expect that revelation to change your floor-wetting hysterics any time soon, but you might want to write that down, just in case, you know, the lithium script starts getting filled again.

[C Max]

Well, Joseph, Gary, Red, Gryn, and the rest who've come to criticize, if you call having the remnants of your enemy attacking other Muslims "losing," in Iraq, that's your problem. And, sad to say, if you call ten dead Marines "losing," that's your problem also. Our country suffered more deaths in a single day several times during our civil war and in World War II; not to mention the Great War, Korea and Vietnam. Great causes require great sacrifices.

Moreover, this war was never about us trying to capture oil reserves, it was about defeating Islamic fascism before it requires a world war to do so.

Liberal "strategies" for dealing with terrorists and their sponsors have been an utter and complete failure in the past wherever they have been tried. Even the French and other European countries are beginning to reckon with the fact that this is a problem which will not go away. Bullies never stop unless challenged, and Islamic fascism is the only reality being taught these days to millions of Muslim children.

And, all you liberals, I'M not the one who said our withdrawal from Somalia emboldened bin Laden to launch the 9/11 attacks, HE IS. Go read the transcripts of his speeches. He considers American liberals to be his number one allies, and this is precisely how he was deluded into launching the 9/11 attacks.

Had bin Laden or any of his sponsors believed 9/11 would result in our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the routing of the military forces there in short order, the attacks NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED. Live with it.

Regardless of whether some people over here are too ignorant, stupid or biased to see the strategic implications of deposing Saddam and occupying Iraq, the people demanding change in places like Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and the UAE know who's winning.

[C Max]

Some Guy:

Fascism and communism might as well be alike. Neither has any use for the rights of individuals to do or think what they want, and both require rigid, lock-step adherence to the same set of rules and results. Each is also quick to chop off any head that stands above the crowd. Neither tolerates dissent.

That's why the upcoming elections in Iraq are so unimportant to you guys. You don't need no stinkin' elections.

[dick lillis]

The picture of H. Dean is in very poor taste. You do conservatives no favor with this sort thing.

[Jacques]

RuudGrl:

I love how you use a year old push-poll to conclude that most Iraqis think it's ok to shoot American soldiers.

That's OK, I'll bet half the Democrat party also believes it's OK to shoot American soldiers too. After all, since the war's "illegal," isn't that the logical conclusion?

[Redleg]

To Kevin Mark Smith,
Over 2000 American dead and not one of them is you. Gee, the war must be a great success from your perspective.

BTW, how many GIs have lost their limbs, eyesight, hearing?

[Thumb]

Moreover, this war was never about us trying to capture oil reserves,

Wow. Just wow.

Liberal "strategies" for dealing with terrorists and their sponsors have been an utter and complete failure in the past wherever they have been tried.

Yeah, the liberals should have learned from the republicans that the only way to deal with terrorists is to sell them weapons, ala Iran/contra.

And, all you liberals, I'M not the one who said our withdrawal from Somalia emboldened bin Laden to launch the 9/11 attacks, HE IS. Go read the transcripts of his speeches.

I've read them. He said very specifically that the reason for the attacks was because the US refused to pull their bases from Mecca, as promised, after the 1980's Afgan war.

Coincidentially, Bush has since pulled our bases from Mecca.

Had bin Laden or any of his sponsors believed 9/11 would result in our invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the routing of the military forces there in short order, the attacks NEVER WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

Sorry Charlie, but if you've been following reality, Bin Laden was COUNTING ON our attacking Iraq. After the removal of US bases from Mecca, the removal of Saddam and subsequent installation of a Muslim theocracy in Iraq were also his openly stated pre-9/11 goals. You want to believe Bin Laden considers American liberals to be his number one allies yet it's been Bush who's given him everything on his wish list.

And speaking of losing the war and what Dean said, I believe it was BUSH who said "I don't think you can win [the war in Iraq]."

[Jacques]

To Redleg:

You're not among the 2,000 dead or the wounded fighters in Iraq, either, are you? Or have you, like Cindy Sheehan, been granted "absolute moral authority" by the New York Times to use the deaths of people who probably (not just possibly) disagree with you to try to make a point?

I suppose any war is futile to pagan, nihilist, post-modern, existential liberal humanist types who think people should just die off and white guys most of all.

[Ryan]

Haha! Great picture! Way to show those left-wing, government-questioning fascists!

[digitalbrownshirt]

Ryan: It's called hyperbole, sorry that went over your head. Dean is no more like Hitler than Bush is like Hitler. That's the whole point of a picture like that.

[Jim Bob]

Where is your proof that you can ever create a democracy in the Middle East under boot, bomb, and gun?

(rolls eyes)

Japan, Germany, Korea, Italy, Panama, Afghanistan.......

Perhaps you should spend less time being "ruud" and more time "paying attention".

Yo Johnny, I didn't know those countries were in the Middle East. Afghanistan is a democracry? Haha. Just make sure you're packing if you step outside of Kabul. You might run into Mullah Omar. Remember him? Ossama's buddy?

Wingnuts often ask libruls if we wish Saddam was still in power. I tell you what I'd rather have then Saddam on trial, Ossama's head on a stick. But that don't mean shit to patriots like you.

Enlist.

[C Max]

Right, Thumb. Wow, just wow. You KNOW this was a war over oil because that's what Kartl Marx says. How perceptive, and what a dolt I am for not seeing through Bush's facade. Gee, I wish I had your brains!

As to Iran contra, I notice that your pal Daniel Ortega's been trounced TWICE in fair elections in Nicaragua since we had anything to say about it. Get a life. Every time this country makes a move, the left pulls out Somoza, El Salvador and every other apocryphal story in in its Big Book of Hyperbole to claim we have no right to intervene anywhere, anytime, for any reason whatsoever, even self-defense. You guys need to step aside and let adults run the war room.

And, as for your grade school interpretation of bin Laden's speeches, he used our "occupation" of "Arab lands" as one of the PRETEXTS for September 11; but he believed it would work because, he specifically said repeatedly, that America would run away after 9/11, just like it did in Somalia. Do you not understand the difference between a pretext and a rationale?

By the by, Iraq gave us a very good excuse to remove our bases in Saudi Arabia (your curious references to "Mecca" notwithstanding), because those bases were protecting the Saudis from Saddam.

Also I'd like to see your "evidence" that bin Laden was "counting on" the U.S. attacking Iraq in retaliation for September 11. Is that a real fact, or just you blowing smoke? Nations don't get attacked when they're perceived to be strong.

As for quoting Bush as saying "I don't think you can win the war in Iraq. . . ," that quote was taken out of context. I don't know how you could take what John Kerry said yesterday out of context, or what Howard Dean said today.

[rose]

So, I'm guessing it must be opposite day around here. Nobody could be this ill informed by accident.

[rock of the westies]

"Or have you, like Cindy Sheehan, been granted "absolute moral authority" by the New York Times to use the deaths of people who probably (not just possibly) disagree with you to try to make a point?"

And so don't you think this website does the same thing, with the sidebar of Pat Tillman? A true American hero, and he did NOT support W or the war in Iraq:
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/09/25/MNGD7ETMNM1.DTL

Just sayin.

[Jacques]

Jim Bob:

If you're going to step outside in New York, or Detroit, or Amsterdam, or Paris, you'd also be better off armed. Does that mean all of these countries are "failed states" that need "regime change"? Only America, I guess.

Also, is Kosovo a democracy? Oh, but we can't mention that, because that was Bill Clinton's war. To date, they've turned up only about 3,000 corpses there. Not the perhaps hundred thousand that Clinton used as his "justification" for the bombing campaign there. Hey, man, Clinton lied, Serbs died.

[jimbob]

Oh man, you hit them libruls good! Ha. Look at deanie weenie. Hitler! That's who he is. Put them libruls in charge and we'll be openin up the gates to all kinds of foriners, and giving away all of our riches to those Europeans. He's Hitler!!

[Toasty critter]

Oh man, you hit them libruls good! Ha. Look at deanie weenie. Hitler! That's who he is. Put them libruls in charge and we'll be openin up the gates to all kinds of foriners, and giving away all of our riches to those Europeans. He's Hitler!!

[mercury]

Just had to come and see the nonsense for myself.

Go enlist, you fucking pussy chickenhawks. Have the courage of your idiotic, ill-informed "convictions", get up from your keyboards and Cool Ranch Doritos, and go serve alongside the actual men and women who've been hoodwinked into this nonsense.

But no -- you'll just commence with the fallacious historical analogies to defend Bush's incompetence and fling shit at the bars of the cage instead, rather than face reality.

You have no clue of what Democracy, America, or honor is actually about.

[Toasty critter]

Oooo! You must have hit the truth with the Dean-is-Hitler point! Murcury is upset, because HE doesn't understand democracy. Americans want torture you Hitler-lover! See the pole at MSNBC! Dean is Hitler! You hit the truth! They're MAD!

[C Max]

ROTW:

I don't think Atlas is using a sidebar of Pat Tillman to suggest that he supported or opposed the Iraq war; I think she's showing his picture to show he's a "true hero," as the title of the sidebar says.

That's different than standing on the corpses of American fighters to declare we're "losing" in Iraq, because all the polls show that the vast majority of people in the service disagree with that assessment. Hence, their deaths shouldn't be used to justify it.

[Redleg]

To Jacques,
No, but I am an Army combat arms veteran who dislikes it when people comment that we have only lost 2000 soldiers in Iraq and therefore things aren't all that bad. I dare one of you badasses to make that little comment to a veteran just returning from Iraq, a veteran who saw soldiers in his unit get killed or wounded.

You read quite a bit into my short comments- going as far as to suggest I am a nihilist. You don't know squat about me so keep your stereotypes to yourself.