Jews Barricaded in Paris, flee

Want to take the temperature of  freedom in  a civilized culture? Easy. Check out how the Jews are treated.

France,  with Europe's largest Jewish population of roughly 650,000, are the canary in the Eurabian coal mine. Look how they live or should I say exist. When I was there this past summer, I can tell you the Jewish quarter unnerved me, it was reminiscent of the cordoning off of Jews during WW2. ..........a ghetto.

Jews of France have increasingly felt as if they have had to take safety into their own hands. "For us now, this means one of two things: bunker in with bomb-proof glass, or leave.

Mr. Barthel and his family have chosen the latter, becoming part of what could easily qualify as an exodus of Jews. In the past four years, French-Jewish immigration to Israel has more than doubled. The United States has received an influx of thousands as well, notably to the Miami area, where, as in Israel, entirely French-Jewish communities have cropped up, bringing with them everything from kosher patisseries to synagogues both French in language and culture

More here, Hat tip: Lois, surrogate mom and favorite LGFer

PHOTO CREDIT: Martin Burfau, AFP, Getty ImagesA man stands before a monument in Lyon honouring Jews killed in the Second World War that was painted with a Swastika.

PARIS RIOT UPDATE:  A decree prolonging for three months a state of emergency in France after widespread riots was published Saturday on the website of the Official Journal.

French-Jewish philosopher Alain Finkielkraut,
"When an Arab torches a school, it's rebellion. When a white guy does it, it's fascism. I'm 'color blind.' Evil is evil, no matter what color it is. And this evil, for the Jew that I am, is completely intolerable."

Comments

[wrapper]

quote
"Look how they live or should I say exist. When I was there this past summer, I can tell you the Jewish quarter unnerved me, it was reminiscent of the cordoning off of Jews during WW2. ..........a ghetto."

Gee. That seems odd to me. Jews so poor in France they live in a ghetto but nonetheless immigrate to the U.S. to live in Miami.

[LC Scotty]

Different connotation of ghetto. Try cracking a history book, jackass.

[Alan McCann]

quote:"Gee. That seems odd to me. Jews so poor in France they live in a ghetto but nonetheless immigrate to the U.S. to live in Miami."

Take a look at the definition for ghetto:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=safari&rls=en-us&oi=defmore&defl=en&q=define:Ghetto

A ghetto need not be, and historically wasn't, based on poverty.

wrapper responds to a post about anti-semitism with an obvious anti-semitic swipe....watch and learn everyone. This is how it all begins again.

[J Rob]

wrapper, you might want to find out what a ghetto is and not what the Americanized meaning is before shooting off your mouth/keyboard.

[wrapper]

You folks claiming the Jews are required to live in specified places in France?

[J Rob]

sadky, s/he might actually know the difference and is just your garden variety anti-semite

[Jeff]

Remember there was an influx of scientific and engineering talent to the US in the 30's due to anti-semitism in Germany. Maybe we will have the same type of influx again because of anti-semitism in France. This will only help our economy even more and make the French economy look even more pathetic in comparison. Of course unlike the 30's the Jewish immigrants have Israel to go to but I still think many will opt for the US. I for one welcome them, as a group they have a terrific work ethic and a thirst for knowledge and education, we will be better for having them here.

[LC Scotty]

Send a few our way, to Buffalo, NY

[Lois]

Pamela,

Thanks for the hat tip, and making me cry.

If those who are so quick to try and make light of what is happening in Fwance to what is, at least for a little while longer, the largest Jewish community in Eurabia, you would see that a large number are immigrating to PQ, as they are Francophones.Fwances' loss is Canada's gain. These are the same Fwench who told h***** (may his name be obliterated)to take our Jews, please. It seems not much has changed, except that there are fewer of us now than then.

We are seeing a world-wide rise in Jew hate, and it feels like the 1930's, but again people turn their backs, and are in denial.

[wrapper]

Scotty----are you ignoring my question?

[monkyboy]

More American Jews leave for Israel each year than French Jews...what does that say about us?

Maybe this is why U.S. Jews are leaving their "ghettos:"

"The leader of the largest branch of American Judaism blasted conservative religious activists in a speech Saturday, calling them 'zealots' who claim a 'monopoly on God' while promoting anti-gay policies akin to Adolf Hitler's.

Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the liberal Union for Reform Judaism, said 'religious right' leaders believe 'unless you attend my church, accept my God and study my sacred text you cannot be a moral person.'

'What could be more bigoted than to claim that you have a monopoly on God?' he said during the movement's national assembly in Houston, which runs through Sunday.

The audience of 5,000 responded to the speech with enthusiastic applause."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/19/ap/national/mainD8DVQSEG6.shtml

[Susan]

I love the way you liberals snag and post only what's relevant to your POV. Here's the rest of the story.

"Yoffie did not mention evangelical Christians directly, using the term "religious right" instead. In a separate interview, he said the phrase encompassed conservative activists of all faiths, including within the Jewish community."
Of the three major streams of U.S. Judaism — Orthodox and Conservative are the others — it is the only one that sanctions gay ordination and supports civil marriage for same-gender couples."

In other words, they approve of aberrant sexual behavior.

[monkyboy]

How does what the gays do in the privacy of their homes affect you, Susan?

[MarcH]

Monkeyboy’s 12:42 am comment is way off-target (what’s new?).

Jews who make aliyah to Israel from the U.S. are predominately Orthodox or Traditional. They are not fleeing from anything. Rather, they are idealists. They follow a bible based imperative to “Go forth” (Genesis 12.1, etc.) and settle the holy-land.

Such Jews also tend to comprise a big part of the 22 to 25% of Jews who voted for President Bush in 2004. They have strong traditional values, tend to oppose legislation which permits gay marriage and easy access to abortion, and favor conservative steps such as vouchers for private and religious schools. They have lately become strong allies of the U.S. Christian religious right. This is mirrored by the strong support given by the U.S. Christian religious right to the State of Israel. In short, such Jews understand that Rev. Jerry Falwell is a better friend of the Jews than Rev. Jesse Jackson and have very little in common, ideologically, with Rabbi Yoffe.

Anyone interested in a better picture of the nature of aliyah to Israel from the U.S. or cooperation by serious, traditional Jews and Christian for a safe Israel (and, consequently a safer United States) may wish to check out the following websites.

http://www.nbn.org.il/
http://www.ifcj.org
http://www.frontpagejerusalem.com

A good rebuttal of the suggestion that the types of opinions advanced by Rabbi Yoffe and cited Monkeyboy have anything to do with traditional Jews or Judaism is contained in the below cited recent article by Don Feder (columnist, gun-owner and Orthodox Jew).

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20234

[monkyboy]

I don't see how a safer Israel = a safer America

As for Feder, he seems like like just another religious crank.

Thomas Jefferson was a Christian? What a laugh.

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

[Susan]

If you're going to quote Jefferson you might arm yourself with some basic knowledge
before doing so.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson#Religious_views

As for your other question, I'm Catholic and assume you might have an obscure idea as to the teachings of my church on the matter. In addition to that, I'm a tax paying citizen of and I'm sick and tired of the moral decline of which gays are partially responsible in this country.

[monkyboy]

Wikipedia? What an authority.

Jefferson had a deep disgust for small-minded religious bigots. He did searched in vain for some truth in the bible. He felt that the only religious laws that should be enforced in America were ones that all religions hold in common.

As for the moral decline of America, I think that is the fault of anyone who thinks killing brown people is the solution to all of our problems...

[Susan]

Chew on these monkyboy.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/tj3.html

http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

And I highly doubt you bothered to read the entry at Wikipedia or you would know most of what's written is true.

WTF are you ranting about....brown people? Say what you mean or shut up.

[monkyboy]

Jefferson is a hero of mine. I've read just about everything he wrote.

I'm not sure why a bigot like yourself, who obviously hates a certain group of Americans, would think Jefferson would support you in your religious hatred, or even consider you a good American.

[MarcH]

At 2:05 am Monkeyboy wrote, “ I don't see how a safer Israel = a safer America”

Hello Monkeyboy,

I’m glad you keyed on that point. It goes to one of the themes of this blog, “The Jew is the canary in the coal-mine”.

Jews have tended throughout history to attract the animosity of some of the worst characters, in recent times the Nazis, the Communists, and Radical Islam*. Many have suggested that this is because the Jews are the wellspring of the various values which are the foundation of liberal society (ethical monotheism, tolerance, democracy, etc.). These values find their greatest expression today in the United States, a country founded by philo-Semitic Christians.

Those powers which want to destroy such values have a natural animosity towards the Jews and draw strength (increased morale and confidence in their cause) from their (perceived) victories over the Jews. Today, it is common in Radical Islam for the U.S. to be referred to as, "The Great Satan" and Israel as "The Little Satan".

If Israel continues to retreat, Radical Islam will view this as an affirmation of its ideology. Radical Islam will also see this as a further confirmation of the weakness of the West/United States; that we are unable and unwilling to help Israel, a country whose heritage is one of the foundations of our civilization and whose present cause is clearly just and moral, to defend itself. Another way to look at it is that Israel represents democracy, freedom, tolerance and diversity in the Middle East. If Israel is able to flourish it is a sign of hope to all the persecuted groups in the Middle East who oppose Radical Islam: Moderate Muslims, Sudanese Blacks, Copts, Marionites, Magrebians, Bahia’s, Druze, etc.

In any case, a strong Israel means a demoralized Radical Islam, a weak and damaged Israel means a re-moralized, strong Radical Islam (concept of re-moralized/demoralized Islam from novelist/WSJ columnist Mark Helprin). Radical Islam is the permanent enemy of the United States because we are the world model for liberal society. Our model is the opposite of the Radical Islamist project (and European socialism).

Israel is the canary in the coal-mine. In our age Radical Islam is the poisonous fumes. If the canary is sick from the fumes it is a sign that we are all in danger.

For more on “Jew as the canary” you might check out one of my sources, Prager and Telushkin’s, Why The Jews?
For more on the role of Judaism as one of the pillars of western civilization you might see Kirk’s, Roots of American Order

* Of course, my view will have no appeal to you if you don’t believe that there is such a thing as Radical Islam and that it is a threat to the West.

Regards,

MarcH

P.S. I think your comments about Feder are a cheap ad hominem. Why don’t you critique his ideas?

[monkyboy]

Radical Islam has been rising and falling in the Middle East for over 1000 years. It will soon fade. Muslims eventually get tired of the sacrifices it calls for.

I am an atheist. I see no difference between Jews, Muslims and Christians. I just divide them into those who worship their god privately and those who make a public spectacle of their beliefs.

I admire Israel, but I don't think the Jews have some special claim to the land. After 60 years, they seem to be able to look after themselves. I don't think they need America's help to survive and I don't think America's safety is in any way connected to Israel's.

Israel's leaders seem to be low quality these days. I remember when Israel was run by heroes.

As for Feder, I put him in the "public spectacle" category.

[E2M]

Idjits got the swastika backward. Can't even get their own symbols right.

[nikko]

As an atheist, of course you do not see any significance in the strength/safety of Israel. Most of the rest of us do, indeed.

[Earl]

A case of out of the pot and into the fire? Latest StatsCan census data indicate more muslims in Montreal than Jews. This is a very significant demographic shift.

Better the Jews that Canada siphons out of france go directly to Thornhill or York Mills or any other good neighbourhood in Toronto. No sense in having to move again in ten years when the islamists in Montreal start acting up [pas possible, that could never happen- could it?- ed.]

[LC Scotty]

Wrapper,

The point is that ghetto does not equal poverty. Like I said, crack a history book and you will see that historically, Jews have been segregated (for various purposes) into parts of cities known as ghettoes. Just read the wiki entry on ghetto.

[wrapper]

Scotty

You think the Jews in France are segregated against their wishes? I don't, in fact I'm positive they aren't. My first comment was a respose to an hysterical post implying that Jews are kept behind walls and placed at the mercy of Muslim tormentors as a result of French policies. That's just silly.

[LC Scotty]

Atlas said it was reminiscent of a ghetto. Perhaps a trip to Merriam Websters is in order?

She did not say that the Jews were forcibly segregated. And again, if you would simply crack open a book, you would realize that not all ghettos were A) Jewish, and B) Enforced by external powers. Sometimes people segregate themselves. I don't know exactly what she saw on her trip to Paris this summer, but something got to her.

[wrapper]

Thanks Scotty, would you please look up reminisent for me and stop by imply while you're in there? Thanks again.

[monkyboy]

What is the significance of the strength/safety of Israel, nikko?

Are you one of those people who think we can bring about the end of the world if we can just fit the puzzle pieces together in the correct way?

[MarcH]

Hello Monkeyboy,

Regarding your question to Niko, you’ve already been given one explanation of the significance of the safety of the State of Israel (see my comment at 3:33 am on 11/20/05 which discussed Israel as a sign and bastion of freedom in the Middle East). Israel’s success demoralizes the Jihadis and will contribute to their eventual defeat. Israel’s fall (G-d forbid) would raise the Jihadis’ morale and strength. Thus, strengthening Israel strengthens the West.

Your response (at 4:01 am, I salute you for hanging in there!) was that you see Radical Islam as almost an inevitable fact of nature, sort of like the moon or tides. It rises and falls, but there is little we can do to influence it (I assume you think the world just has to suffer through its depredations). Would you also say that other recent totalitarian ideologies (Nazism and Communism) were also immune to counter-action? That is absurd. The historical record shows that the various totalitarian ideologies attract followers in proportion to the magnitude of their successes and the perceived weakness of their opponents. It also shows that they can be successfully resisted and eventually sent to the “ash-bin of history”.

Your answer illustrates a bright line which divides your camp from the anti-totalitarian camp (of which this blog is a small but impressive part). You and your crowd either deny the reality of the threat or believe that resistance is futile. We, in the opposite camp, are ready to fight for our civilization.

So, you’ve already been given an answer to your question many times, in many ways and on many posts. We have a failure to communicate because you don’t like what the answer implies: that decent people (Christian, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim and atheist) do have the ability and duty to resist Radical Islam in whatever way the can.

Regards,

MarcH

P.S. I wonder what significance you think your declaration that you are an atheist has on the debate?

[monkyboy]

Actually, what tends to strengthen Radical Islam is foreign troops in "Muslim" lands.

As the right's solution to Radical Islam is to put troops in "Muslim" lands, this wave of Radical Islam is dragging on longer than usual...

I don't think my being an atheist has much bearing on this discussion. But claiming belief in a supernatural being that nobody has ever seen doesn't exactly make arguments more logical, either.

I'm fascinated by the Christians who support Israel because they think it will get them teleported up to heaven. Just read about them last week. I was wondering if Nikko was one of them.

[MarcH]

In reply to Monkeyboy’s 5:29 pm comment, here are a few more comments:

Monkeyboy, please define the term you used, “Muslim lands”. Are we in the West to supposed to respect a Radical Muslim view that any place where Muslims claim they have ruled or settled in significant numbers is now a potential “Muslim land(s)”? Would this include all or part of Lebanon, Sudan, France, Spain, Hungary, India, Thailand, Philippines, Israel, Michigan, etc.? Where do we go to get the permission slip signed for western troops to deploy to defend our vital interests and preempt future mega-terrorist attacks?

Monkeyboy asserts that it is western troops in “Muslim lands” that strengthens Radical Islam. I’d say it’s the timid employment of western troops and other instruments of western power at times and in place where they are needed (retreat in Somalia, Fallujah, Gaza, etc.) which emboldens and strengthens Radical Islam. Consider just the following two examples (I’m not going to refer to Iraq, since this blog is full of excellent defenses of the U.S. effort there) :
1. In Afghanistan the result of the deployment of U.S. troops has been the transformation of that country from terrorist base to aspiring democracy; and;
2. Iran in 1979 had been free of foreign troops since the late 1940s (partly as a result of U.S. pressure on the USSR to pull out). Nevertheless, this was the first nation to fall to Radical Islam (partly due to the timidity of President Carter).

To conclude, Monkeyboy’s prescription for the West in dealing with radical Islam sees to be similar to that of an upperclass Roman living a villa south of the Alps circa 400 A.D. He hears accounts of the Vandals, Alemani and other savage tribes up North. He knows that these barbarians have ravaged Roman lands before and that there are some formerly civilized Roman areas which have fallen to them. Nevertheless, instead of building new legions, finding a new Scipio and marching out to confront the barbarians you prefer to pay tribute, make treaties which you know will be broken and hope that they will go away soon.

And here are a few comments on other matters,

If you (Monkeyboy) don’t think your being an atheist “has much bearing on this discussion” why did you raise the point?

Saying that Christians support Israel because they “think it will get them teleported up to heaven” is an insulting way to label the motives of religious people. It is as if I were to write that atheists are motivated by the drive to fulfill their lowest urges without a sense of guilt. Why don’t you just write that religious people try to live their lives in a way which will be pleasing to G_d and conform to his ultimate values, as they perceive them?

[monkyboy]

How about we define "Muslim Lands" as countries that are 98% or greater Muslim?

Let's not forget bin Laden's only complaint against the U.S. was he wanted our troops out of Saudi Arabia, a request we quietly complied with in 2003.

I doubt the west will fall to a "barbarian" invasion. The U.S. spends more on "defense" than the rest of the world combined, and most of the rest is spent by Europe.

I'd hardly call our invasion force in Iraq timid. We are spending more per year there than Israel's GNP. The entire pointy end of the U.S. Army is 140,000 combat troops. A large percentage of them are stationed in Iraq now.

Are you saying that religion plays no part in what is going on in the Middle East?

nikko:
"As an atheist, of course you do not see any significance in the strength/safety of Israel. Most of the rest of us do, indeed."

What does that mean?

[Kristian]

As an European,I am shocked and saddened at the rise of anti-semitism.
Europe losing its jewish communities is a disaster.
So often, the far right parties are being blamed for act of anti-semitism,which they do.What is not said is the anti-israel, anti-jews,anti-america coming from the left parties in Europe.
The left in Europe especially in France are letting their true feelings re-emerged, feelings they kept hidden for decades.
No other parties in Europe are more virulent in their hatred against America and Israel than the so-called socialists.
Socialists in Europe have sold their soul to the Islamo_facists ARAFAT.
EUrabia is well and truly here. We in Europe have acceded to the point of no return.
A fatwa delivered in France, a country which is supposed to be ruled by laicity,is in my eyes, ISLAM ruling the government.
K.

[herschel ben yehuda]

I am a Jewish person, and I know the reality, which is as follows : Yes, the Jews who live in those ghettos probably do choose to live where they have chosen. Many, many Jews of France live outside what folks are calling the ghetto. Regarding ghettos historically, in some cases Jews lived in them at their own option, but generally it was decided for them by the powers of the country in which they lived. In most cases they went out of their areas during the day to do business and for marketing. In a few cases they were considered equal citizens, but many times they lived as a "nation", within a nation.

We were expelled from many countries in past centuries, including France, and England too, among many others. In some cases, France and England again, we were later welcomed back. When England threw us out in 1291, the Baltic states, among others, welcomed us to come and be a "nation" within a nation - probably in a forced ghetto. England invited us back in 1655. Spain threw us out in 1492, with Portugal throwing us out in 1497. Holland took us in very nicely, and never, to my knowlede, forced us into a ghetto. In Russia, we lived in the "Jewish Pale of Settlement," which excluded Russia per se (except with a special permit) until 1917.

When Spain and Portugal threw us out, the Ottoman Empire invited us over, and did not ghetto-ize us, to my knowlege We were, however, dhimmis (we were the 4th Millet- 1st millet = muslims, 2nd Millet = Greeks, 3rd Millet + Christians, Jews + 4th millet).

France may have had forced Jewish ghettos in past centuries, but it France, but France certainly does not force its Jews to live in any one area or another - to say that is sheer crap!!!!!

I thought some clarification and some additional relevant facts was important!

Ben Yehuda

[herschel ben yehuda]

I just read my posting, and next time I will proof-read, to avoid all the wrongly spelled words.

Sorry,

HBY